Looking to get into counting Spanish.
How would you compare the game to that of counting blackjack? Hows the heat compared to blackjack.
Anything else to know about Spanish? Katarinas book just came in.
I am strongly considering switching to Spanish once I arrive in the US
Nitram,
Unlike at BJ, I have never been backed off at Sp21, and have received only very mild heat from the PC's while playing. I will caution you to develop a VERY thick skin, because even BS plays will elicit negative comments from the other players.
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
Comments refer to West Coast Spanish. My limited sp21 is H17 xxx. Very popular in Washington and Oregon. In some locales, Spanish tables are literally overflowing while dd and 6d tables are empty. Also, as popular as Spanish is, the quality of play was extra horrendously bad. Nobody knew how to play it.
Further, by your comments, you don’t know the game. If correct, read Katarinas book forward and backwards, especially those portions that refer to the xxx h17 game. Season yourself first by playing low stakes.
OP has suggested his general locale area in the past. If I’m correct, he will play west coast. S17 is not played on the west coast. It’s still beatable though, but variance is higher in the h17 version.Originally Posted by bjanalyst
To OP, forgot to mention, your edge is slightly reduced if your 3rd double is limited by table max, which is a consideration of west coast games. So, you should consider that when choosing your min bet. I don’t think that is in Katarinas book.
BJAnalyst said
“ Also if you use Katarina Walker's Hi Low it is unbalanced with a pivot at a true count of four (since the 10's are removed) similar to the KO in blackjack being unbalanced with a pivot of a true count of 4 so my Table of Critical Running Counts (TCRC) for KO can be used for Spanish 21 HL also.
So my only comments on Spanish 21 are
1. Stay away from H17 games. Play only S17 games.
2. Read Katarina's Spanish 21 book and use Katarina's HL for Spanish 21.
3. Use six and eight deck TCRC (Table of Critical Running Counts) for KO for Spanish 21 HL.”
Freightman suggests that
Rather than investing tons of time on a game you don’t know and will seldom play, use hi lo, starting with -24 On the 6 deck game. Break even is about -3 as I recall, and your max bet is out at about true 0. If you get positive counts, blast away.
Whereas blackjack has a rule of thumb Of .5 increase in edge per true count, you can hike that to .7 at Spanish. I haven’t played in years and I’ve forgotten a lot. Again, if you’re going to play this game - it’s fun but it’s dangerous - it has high variance - strategy is entirely different than BJ - you’ll get hammered if you use BJ strategy for Spanish.
One last point. If you go to Pennsylvania, play their great BJ games you know, rather than the great Spanish game you don’t.
I live in PA so these games are literally around the corner from me. On casino is one mile from where I live and two more are less than 20 miles form where I live and another casino is scheduled to be opened in the city I live in. Both the Spanish 21 and blackjack games are great.
But I do play blackjack and not that much Spanish 21. I explained the game I play is five decks, six decks dealt, S17, DAS, LS, Super 4 and Lucky Lades (full payout - not the cheapo LL payout).
I use KO with AA89mTc and 5m9c which besides being great for blackjack, is also great for Lucky Ladies' where I use the Tc = Ten count = KO + AA89mTc for the LL bet and for Super 4 I use S4c = Super 4 count = KO - (AA89mTc + 5m9c). And I am absolutely not going to go into any more details on the LL, Super 4 or blackjack bets using my count system because I am sick and tired of being insulted. So no more detailed free advice that is correct by the way because of a select few rude, obnoxious readers.
A comment on the Spanish 21 where I live, It is S17 so lower variance than your H17 redoubling game which may have the same edge as S17. I prefer the S17 with less variance .
Also the betting running count (brc) for S17 has a larger variance than the brc for H17 so S17 brc will uncover more favorable opportunities.
You need to add a side count to the HL for improve HL betting for both S17 and H17 betting since for Spanish 21 HL has a low betting efficiency as I described earlier. But I am not about to list the brc to use because again, I refuse to submit myself to personal attacks. If I do not list my system, I cannot be attacked. Therefore I will not include any details, just generalities, in my comments.
Starting at -24 for the six deck game and counting with negative numbers is way to much work and negative numbers are more difficult to count than positive. And while it is correct that at zero you should have your max bet out that is because you have a Spanish 21 HL true count of four. Finally you do not mention how to get true count for other HL running counts. You have no true count conversion in your system.
I am not going into details on the TCRC. But with the TCRC you start your HL at zero and so you are most of the time dealing with just positive HL running counts and the TCRC lets you see what the true count is for all HL counts with no calculations - just a quick mental table look in the TCRC. And just remember to add 4 to Katerina Walker's indices.
Last edited by bjanalyst; 09-23-2020 at 07:24 AM.
BJAnalyst said
“
Starting at -24 for the six deck game and counting with negative numbers is way to much work and negative numbers are more difficult to count than positive. And while it is correct that at zero you should have your max bet out that is because you have a Spanish 21 HL true count of four. Finally you do not mention how to get true count for other HL running counts. You have no true count conversion in your system.”
Why is it difficult from -24, I find it easy peasy. And to clarify, I myself used Halves as in why should I Deviate from what is an automatic count for me. What you mean no true count conversion Kimosabe! FBM ASC - for feel good play.
Do not play the H17 Spanish 21. The H17 game starts out with a larger disadvantage than the S17 game and you cannot start increasing your bets with H17 unit a true count of 3 with break even at a true count of 2. S17 the casinos start with a 0.5% edge similar to blackjack so you can increase your Spanish 21 bets at a true count of 2 and break even at a true count of 1, similar to blackjack betting.
So stick with S17 Spanish 21 - do not patronize the lousy H17 games. In PA all casinos by law must stand on soft 17 for both blackjack and Spanish 21.
Also if you use Katarina Walker's Hi Low it is unbalanced with a pivot at a true count of four (since the 10's are removed) similar to the KO in blackjack being unbalanced with a pivot of a true count of 4 so my Table of Critical Running Counts (TCRC) for KO can be used for Spanish 21 HL also.
So my only comments on Spanish 21 are
1. Stay away from H17 games. Play only S17 games.
2. Read Katarina's Spanish 21 book and use Katarina's HL for Spanish 21.
3. Use six and eight deck TCRC (Table of Critical Running Counts) for KO for Spanish 21 HL.
4. With TCRC, Katarina' HL indices HL need to be increased by 4. That is because Katarina calculates her "true count" as (HL - 4*n) / dr where n = number or decks and dr = decks remaining and published her indices according to her "true count" calculation. TCRC calculates true counts as 4 + (HL - 4*n) / dr thus Katarina's indices need to be increased by 4 and then the TCRC can be used. Katarina's "true count" calculations are extremely difficult to do in a casino. The TCRC is easy to implement with no calculations, just a mental TCRC lookup.
For Spanish 21 S17, the HL betting efficiency is only 92% as opposed to HL for blackjack with a betting efficiency of 96.5%. So the Spanish 21 HL really needs a side count to help with betting.
I have done a complete analysis of Spanish 21 with side counts for both betting and playing strategy variations as I have done for blackjack.
However, some rude readers of this forum have insulted and personally attacked my character many, many times so I will not list any details of my system on this forum to this extremely hostile audience. They cannot find any errors in my work so instead they attack me personally. How low can you go?
Only if redoubling is not permitted in the H17 game. With redoubling in the H17 game, house edge is almost the same.
I've only played east coast (S17) Sp21. While heat exists, it is considerably less than BJ. Variance is greater than BJ (especially in the H17 redouble game).
1. Yes, in PA play straight BJ.
2. Don't know post-Covid, but in WA, definitely play the H17 SP21 games.
3. Ignore any analysis based solely on EoRs. A lot of work has been done on SP21.
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
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