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Thread: What is the Tarzan count that beats HO2 w ASC

  1. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    Repetitive: This paragraph have already been posted in "Hi-lo + 7m9c Sim Results". Reporting post as repetitive and abuse.
    CombinedMeme 12072019225956.jpg

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    "This is a discipline thing. You either do it right or you don't do it at all."

    Don Schlesinger, pg 2, "Blackjack Attack: Playing the Pros' Way", 3rd Edition.

  2. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post

    We don't care.
    Repetitive paragraph I am reporting this !!! Sorry, no one is interested.
    Stop speaking for others. Speak for yourself. Do not use "We". You did this before when I was posted HL w 7m9c and a couple of players replied that they were interested in the results.

  3. #33


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    Repetitive: This paragraph have already been posted in "Hi-lo + 7m9c Sim Results". Reporting post as repetitive and abuse.
    I did not repeat the details of HL w 7m9c. I merely said if the reader was interested to refer to that post for the details.

    Also my post about Tarzan in HL w 7m9c post was to get a reply on this post. Just because you read both posts does not mean other who read this post read the HL w 7m9c post as well. And you are complaining about one paragraph that was part of a longer post. Really.

    Your posts are counterproductive, insulting, accomplish nothing and do not give any new information.

    And your statement that high limits has better rules is just your experience.

    I told you I play at $5 tables, six decks, five decked dealt, S17, DAS, LS, full payout Lucky Ladies, Super 4, can play up to three spots and no heat using chips and no heat period as I know other counters who have been going several times a week for months and not a single back off or complaint from the pit. Everyone likes me and I get comps also. So you cannot get better than that.

    The Lucky Ladies bets are independent of the blackjack bets so you have lose your blackjack hand but win LL so your variance is reduced. Also the LL can have very large advantages of 10% or 20% or more at times but it also has large variances. . The LL bet starts at $5 and is capped at $25 which is just as well because along with the large advantage there is a larger variance in this bet so you cannot go crazy betting LL. And if AA89mTc is large, I can bet LL when tc(KO) is very small like 0, 1 or 2.

    Also the Super 4 bet is $5 and it is a great bet. You get paid if the dealer has an Ace up and the poker payouts start if the dealer had blackjack. I use S4c = KO - (1/2)*(AA89mTc) - 1.5*(Am8c) and bet Super 4 if S4c >= crc(5) or so. If you are keeping a side count for Aces that is great for the Super 4 count. You bet Super 4 when tc(Aexc) >= 1.5 or so where Aexc = 4*dp - Ap and tc(Aexc) = Aexc / dr, of course. And with the Super 4 bet you win when the dealer has blackjack, again reducing variance and increasing expectation.

    Just a few weeks ago I bet Super 4 when KO = 10 and with 2 decks remaining. thus for six decks tc(KO) = 4 + (KO - 4*n) / dr = 4 + (10 - 24) / 2 = -3. So I bet two hands of $5 and two Super 4 when tc(KO) = -3. I did this because AA89mTc = -24 and Am8c = -8 and so S4c = KO - (1/2)*(AA89mTc) - 1.5*(Am8c) = 10 - (1/2)*(-24) - 1.5*(-8) = 34 and crc(5) = 4*n + dr = 24 + 2 = 26 so my S4c was way above crc(5) with a tc(KO) = -3. I got an A,6 and A,A and dealer had a King up and got blackjack. I won $750 for my trip Aces and $50 for my pair of Aces but I lost my two $5 blackjack bets, so what. There were tons of Aces left in the shoe when I bet Super 4.

    Normally with such a low KO count, I would have asked for marker and left the table. However, I noticed that AA89mTc and Am8c were getting to be very, very negative and so I figured the Super 4 bet would become profitable. Thus i stayed and I bet Super 4 as I showed you above. I have also won Super 4 at other times with large tc(KO).

    And I already mentioned I got QHQH around 6 times in the last six months (I go three or four times a week) and other LL wins and sometimes I bet LL with tc(KO) = 0, 1 or 2 if AA89mTc is high enough so even if the pit were tracking me, which they are not, they would be using the HL and would have no idea what I was doing.

    So these are great rules on a $5 blackjack game.

    Also you said you like the Tarzan count so use it. Good luck with that.
    Last edited by bjanalyst; 01-22-2020 at 07:08 AM.

  4. #34


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    I am surprised that bjanalyst is selling many of his systems on Amazon when he is not sure with them.

  5. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    I am surprised that bjanalyst is selling many of his systems on Amazon when he is not sure with them.
    LMAO!! His systems are to trick inexperienced Blackjack player. Savvy players would not buy them. $29 is a lot for a Blackjack book. They buying Blackjack theory anyways. Average player won't know how to apply and implement his theory. His book is lacking the simulation data and he doesn't have a simulator that does simulations and claims that at the back of his book, "Although no simulations were done for KO with 5m7c alone, based on simulations that were done, it is estimated that KO with 5m7c is approximately on par with HO2 w ASC". See here where the trickery lies. How in the world does he determine that without doing a simulation? How with Correlation Coefficient?? KO with 5m7c and AA89mTc only narrowly outperforms the Hi-Opt 2 with Ace side count (HO2 w ASC). Wouldn't the SCORE go below HO2 w ASC with AA89mTc taken out?
    Last edited by seriousplayer; 01-23-2020 at 07:10 PM.

  6. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    I am surprised that bjanalyst is selling many of his systems on Amazon when he is not sure with them.
    First I have been using my system for over 5 years now and it works great.

    Also Gronbog did sims on my KO with 5m7c and AA89mTc which verified my system works and Gronbog gave me permission to publish his sims results in my book. I would never publish without his express permission.

    I posted Gronbog's sim and compared to Tarzan's and for back counting KO w 5m7c and AA89mTc beat Tarzan, the best system that you knew of. So please stop with saying the system does not work.


    Also all of my formulas for strategy changes make logical sense so they are easy to remember and the logic gives you added confidence that they are correct.

    Finally, I wanted to point out some comments about the CC and my LSL technique not working because blackjack is not linear. The EoR that I use in CC calculations and in my LSL technique to calculate indices were also calculated using the LSL technique. So linearity was assumed in the calculation of EoR.

    Unless you are at the less than one decks remaining, the EoR and linear estimates for blackjack give very accurate results.

    This can be seen as the EoR listed in BJA are to four or five significant figures and high speed computers were needed for these calculations based on combinatorial analysis. In Griffin's time there were maybe 2 or 3 significant figures because he did not have very fast computers back then.

    So answer this. Why would the experts publish EoR to 4 or 5 significant figures if EoR were not very good approximations for blackjack? The answer is they would not. The fact the EoR were published to 4 or 5 significant figures is further confirmation that my CC and LSL technique that use EoR produce reliable results.


    My $29 books should not be on Amazon. I was using Xlibris and I got rid of them and told them to take down all of my books two months ago. But I think there are some residual books that they are trying to sell off.

    Xlibirs are a bunch of cheats. They are the ones who listed my book for $29 and they have kept virtually all of the royalties while also charging me to publish my books. I published with them starting in 2016 and in the four years I had them, 2016 to 2019, I received less than $100 total in royalties for all of the books I published with them.

    Do NOT use Xlibris. If you google "Xlibris reviews" you will see links with over 250 complaints of them paying minimal if any royalties at all and I think some authors may have started a class action lawsuit against Xlibris.

    I am republishing with Bookwhip with my books at half or less Xlibris price. My first book, KO with Table of Critical Running Counts, is on Bookwhip web site. I think the paperback is like $10 and the online book around $3.

    So I am not making any money from my books. I make money from using my system.

    That is the opposite of most other phoney authors who publish useless books with systems that do not work and they make their money off of book sales as they would never really use their worthless system themselves.


    By the way, I forgot to mention that I always tip the dealers. When the LL bet is good I bet $1 for the dealer on my two or three LL bets. So when I hit the dealers get a 4 to 1, 10 to 1, 25 to 1 or 200 to 1 if QHQH and no dealer blackjack and 1000 to 1 if dealer blackjack. Much better than a miserable $1 tip. Last month I got QHQH so the dealers got a $200 tip. Mary, the dealer, told me she had only $20 in her chip tray before that. The dealers depend on their tips as they make only $5 an hour before tips.

    I also hit QHQH with a $10 bet with dealer blackjack in August last year. I had to sign forms for the government who took $2,400 of my $10,000 win as tax withholdings (they do not do that for the 200 to 1 payout of QHQH, just for the 1,000 to 1 payout with dealer blackjack) but I made sure that I gave the dealers a $500 tip. The dealers remember and when I came back the next day, dealers who were not even there thanked me for their tip the day before as their tips are shared among al blackjack dealers and they told each other. Even the pit bossed thanked me for tipping the dealers.
    Last edited by bjanalyst; 01-22-2020 at 10:35 PM.

  7. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post


    Thanks for your comments and I also want to thank Gronbog for his comment where he said that Tarzan never got criticized because he never said that his Tarzan count was simple and tried to get other players to use it.

    I have absolutely no problem in keeping the KO with two side counts using chips. I update KO in my head and AA89mTc stack of chips as soon as the cards hit the table and update 5m7c (or Am8c if Super 4 offered) after all cards are on the table. I can update all these counts quicker than any dealer can deal and can do it for hours on end without mistakes and I get bored because I still have time left over after updating all of these counts. And since I use KO with a pivot at a true count of 4 I use TCRC (Table of Critical Running Counts) to instantly "look up" the true count.

    The casino I go to offers $5 blackjack with six decks, 5 decks dealt, S17, DAS, LS, Lucky Ladies with full payout and Super 4. Since Super 4 is offered I keep Am8c instead of 5m7c. My maximum bet is two hands of $40 or three hands of $30. When count goes bad I ask the dealer to put markers on my spots and I leave, cash in chips I have in my pockets, come back and buy in for more chips at the next shoe so it looks like I am losing.

    I have been doing this 3 or 4 times a week for over 6 months now. I have hit QHQH around 6 times (once with dealer blackjack for 1000 to 1 payout) and sometimes I am betting LL when tc(KO) = 0, 1 or 2 if AA89mTc is large enough because remember my Lucky Ladies count = Ten Count = KO + AA89mTc. So I look like an ordinary gambler.

    Also I have three opportunities to bet so the vast majority of my sessions are wins and when I do lose my losses are small.

    So I do not understand why forum readers say my system is too complicated for them.

    But considering every counter I meet uses the HL and refuses to switch to even the KO I have basically given up on trying to convince others that it is not that difficult to do. They are very stubborn, do not want to switch and do not want to learn TCRC. They will not switch to the KO and certainly will never switch to a level 2 count.

    That is why I was trying to analyze side counts for the HL. Since all the counters I meet want to keep the HL the only way I could help them is to add side counts to the HL.

    I want to thank Gronbog for his help with the sims for HL w 7m9c. My other suggested side count for the HL player is Am6c.

    An alternative to the Am6s with the HL is the ASC. I had already given posts on both of these in posts on HL w 7m9c sim results.

    I personally do not like ASC because I find them difficult to keep and they are approximate. ASC requires keeping track of an ever increasing value of Aces played and estimating decks played to calculated Adef = deficiency of Aces left in the shoe = Ap - 4*dp where dp = decks played. I like plus/minus side counts which are EXACT and fluctuate around their mean of zero.

    My friend HL counter who I email and talk to ove the phone and in person said he would like to keep an ASC with the HL. Appartenly he finds that easy to do. So whom I am to say? I do not like ASC but he does.

    So I calculated indices for this count. If no side bets are offered, HL w Am6c and HL w ASC are approximately equal. However, if LL and/or Super 4 are offered, ASC is a better side count to keep with HL than Am6c is. I had posted this information in posts on my posts on HL w 7m9c sim results that Gronbog did. If interested refer to that post.
    So you sit out the when the count goes bad...tell them to hold your spot...then leave to the cage to cash out some chips...then return to the table and buy in again, to make them think you are a losing player? So you have been doing this for you say 6 months...just how long do you think they will allow you to keep doing this before they catch on?
    Granted, at your very low red chip max bet level they probably don't even care. Even if they already know what you are doing.

  8. #38


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    Quote Originally Posted by Counting_Is_Fun View Post
    So you sit out the when the count goes bad...tell them to hold your spot...then leave to the cage to cash out some chips...then return to the table and buy in again, to make them think you are a losing player? So you have been doing this for you say 6 months...just how long do you think they will allow you to keep doing this before they catch on?
    Granted, at your very low red chip max bet level they probably don't even care. Even if they already know what you are doing.
    You are correct. I play at $5 blackjack tables with my maximum bet of 2 hands of $40 or three hands of $30 so the bet amount is small so they have no reason to really scrutinize me. They have never even bothered me.

    This casino is 17 miles from where I live. I live next to another casino just one mile from where I live but it has eight decks and does not have Super 4 bet and has $15 and $25 table limits. So I go to this other casino which is just 30 minutes away.

    I have been going three of four times a week for the past six months now, use two stacks of chips one for my AA89mTc and one for my Am8c and I have never been bothered in the least about using these stack of chips. I tip the dealers and I am friendly with the pit bosses who all know my name and are happy to see me and they also think I lose. All of the dealers, players and pit bosses like me and I get comps also.

    So I win a little at a time and I do not see get back off. If I was going to be back off it would have happened a long time ago. Instead the pit bosses like me when they see me come in and are happy to see me there and they also like that I tip the dealers.

    Remember, I make it look like I am losing by cashing my chips in and buying in for cash again and I play the Lucky Ladies and Super 4 which when I win they think it is luck. And if they did have suspicions they would use the HL count to track my bets. But I use AA89mTc and Am8c to help with these side bets. So I sometimes make Lucky Ladies bets and Super 4 bets at low tc(KO) which is same as low tc(HL). So they think these are sucker bets and I just get lucky, And even if they did check with the HL count, which I am sure they do not, they would see that I am sometimes betting these at low tc(HL) and so I am making these sucker bets at the wrong time and they attribute my wins to pure luck. But I am sure they the eye in the sky is not bothering to track my maximum $40 bets on two hand by counting down the deck with the HL count. They have more important things to do.

    So I have three opportunities to bet: regular blackjack, Lucky Ladies and Super 4.

    By not getting greedy, winning money a little at a time, make it look like I am losing by frequently cashing in for chips, tipping the dealers and "randomly" playing the Lucky Ladies and Super 4 bets, I thnk I should be able to play as long as I want to.

    And I know counters who use the HL only and it is very obvious what they are doing if the pit were looking. There are around a half dozen counters I meet and they have never been backed off. All of their max bets are under $100. So I guess these low max bets do not bother this casino.

    One of the counters I meet told me he went to another casino that was very paranoid about his maximum bet of two hands of $80 and they did back him off, at lease for a while anyhow. But the casino I go to he has played for six months now like me and does not have any problem at all.

    The casino I play at it a good game. so why press it trying to bet big money on blackjack. I do not want to lose the opportunity to playl at this casino.

    I am happy winning a little at a time and no heat and welcome back with open arms.. Also I sometimes win big when I hits suited an match for 25 to 1 or QHQH for 200 to one (and once I hit QHQH with dealer blackjack for 1000 to 1) or trips or straigths on Super 4. So I do fine because of theses side bets which, as I stated above, the casino thinks of as pure luck.
    Last edited by bjanalyst; 01-24-2020 at 12:03 PM.

  9. #39


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    Quote Originally Posted by bjanalyst View Post
    You are correct. I play at $5 blackjack tables with my maximum bet of 2 hands of $40 or three hands of $30 so the bet amount is small so they have no reason to really scrutinize me. They have never even bothered me.

    This casino is 17 miles from where I live. I live next to another casino just one mile from where I live but it has eight decks and does not have Super 4 bet and has $15 and $25 table limits. So I go to this other casino which is just 30 minutes away.

    I have been going three of four times a week for the past six months now, use two stacks of chips one for my AA89mTc and one for my Am8c and I have never been bothered in the least about using these stack of chips. I tip the dealers and I am friendly with the pit bosses who all know my name and are happy to see me and they also think I lose. All of the dealers, players and pit bosses like me and I get comps also.

    So I win a little at a time and I do not see get back off. If I was going to be back off it would have happened a long time ago. Instead the pit bosses like me when they see me come in and are happy to see me there and they also like that I tip the dealers.

    Remember, I make it look like I am losing by cashing my chips in and buying in for cash again and I play the Lucky Ladies and Super 4 which when I win they think it is luck. And if they did have suspicions they would use the HL count to track my bets. But I use AA89mTc and Am8c to help with these side bets. So I sometimes make Lucky Ladies bets and Super 4 bets at low tc(KO) which is same as low tc(HL). So they think these are sucker bets and I just get lucky, And even if they did check with the HL count, which I am sure they do not, they would see that I am sometimes betting these at low tc(HL) and so I am making these sucker bets at the wrong time and they attribute my wins to pure luck. But I am sure they the eye in the sky is not bothering to track my maximum $40 bets on two hand by counting down the deck with the HL count. They have more important things to do.

    So I have three opportunities to bet: regular blackjack, Lucky Ladies and Super 4.

    By not getting greedy, winning money a little at a time, make it look like I am losing by frequently cashing in for chips, tipping the dealers and "randomly" playing the Lucky Ladies and Super 4 bets, I thnk I should be able to play as long as I want to.

    And I know counters who use the HL only and it is very obvious what they are doing if the pit were looking. There are around a half dozen counters I meet and they have never been backed off. All of their max bets are under $100. So I guess these low max bets do not bother this casino.

    One of the counters I meet told me he went to another casino that was very paranoid about his maximum bet of two hands of $80 and they did back him off, at lease for a while anyhow. But the casino I go to he has played for six months now like me and does not have any problem at all.

    The casino I play at it a good game. so why press it trying to bet big money on blackjack. I do not want to lose the opportunity to playl at this casino.

    I am happy winning a little at a time and no heat and welcome back with open arms.. Also I sometimes win big when I hits suited an match for 25 to 1 or QHQH for 200 to one (and once I hit QHQH with dealer blackjack for 1000 to 1) or trips or straigths on Super 4. So I do fine because of theses side bets which, as I stated above, the casino thinks of as pure luck.
    Let me tell you this son: "You got to learn more and post less because you think you know a lot but you don't know anything".

  10. #40


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    Quote Originally Posted by seriousplayer View Post
    Let me tell you this son: "You got to learn more and post less because you think you know a lot but you don't know anything".

    I explained to you:

    (1) The great game at the casino I play at: S17, DAS, LS, six decks, five decks dealt, Super 4 and full payout Lucky Ladies

    (2) The counts I use telling me when the make these bets: KO for blackjack, Tc = KO + AA89mTc for Lucky Ladies and S4c = KO - (1/2)*(AA89mTc) - 1.5*(Am8c) for Super 4.

    I also explained how these side bets increase expected value as more favorable bets to play per hour since I have three opportunities to bet: regular blackjack, Lucky Ladies and Super 4, so more favorable bets per hour of play.

    The Lucky Ladies bet are independent of the blackjack bets and Super 4 poker payouts occur when dealer has blackjack so reduces the loss from dealer blackjack.

    So these side bets result in more favorable bets per hour and so hourly win rate increases and decreases risk due to both more bets per hour, LL being independent of blackjack bets and you win Super 4 when you lose your blackjack hand to dealer blackjack thus reducing the sting of dealer blackjacks.

    My maximum blackjack bet is two hands of $40 or three hands of $30 but if I am losing I reduce my maximum bets somewhat. My Lucky Ladies bets start at $5 when 24 < Tc <= 30 and when Tc >= 30 I start increasing my LL bets up to $25 maximum if I am winning - this if for six deck games. Note that Tc = 30 means tc(Tc) increases as dr decreases which is what you want since for a given tc(Tc) the players advantage in the LL bet decreases as dr decreases since the probability of getting two Tens decrease as dr decrease.

    But I neglected to ell you my results so that is what I will do here.

    I take $1,000 for a day trip bankroll. The casino is less than 30 minutes from my house. If I lose my $1,000 ore most of my $1,000 I call it a day and I go home.

    I have been going three or four times a week for over six months now.

    Over the past six plus months I have been the casino around 100 times. My results are ether I win in 3 out of 5 session, approximately even in one out of 5 sessions and lose my bankroll or most of my bankroll in one out of five sessions.

    But in my 3 out of 5 winning sessions, some are very large when I get QHQH or some 25 to 1 Lucky Ladies payouts of Super 4 tips payouts of $750 payout on $5 bets or super 4 straights $350 or flushes $250. I gotten QHQHQ approximately once a month for 200 to 1 payout and once got QHQH with dealer blackjack for 1000 to 1 payout.

    So that is the game I play and those are my results.

    I am happy with my winnings. There is not much else to say. You cannot argue with success.


    Last edited by bjanalyst; 01-25-2020 at 07:11 PM.

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