Odd dealer error - did I handle it right?

**Optimus Prime** · 01-04-2020, 12:51 AM

I was playing with 1 other player. I was a few seats to his right. I was dealt 8,2 and he got a natural. The upcard was an A, so the other player took even money. The dealer paid the even money, then proceeded to play her own hand without letting me hit my 8,2. She had a 3 in the hole and drew a 2, then an 8, for a total of 14, before realizing her mistake and calling the floor.

I pointed out to the floor that the 2 and 8 the dealer drew should have been my cards, which would have given me 20, so I should get those cards. The floor said she could only "back up" 1 card, so had the dealer push my hand and move on. I protested that I should have had a win (probably) with 20, but she wouldn't budge. As I didn't want to raise a stink over what was a table minimum bet, I took my push and let it go.

What's bugging me is that the dealer never drew to her hard 14 - seems like I should have asked the floor to let me play my total of 10 against the dealer's total of 14 and I'd either win or lose that bet, rather than taking a push, as it would be +EV instead of zero. Or better yet, let me hit my 10 even though the cards were out of order.

Did I handle it right? Did they?

**Counting_Is_Fun** · 01-04-2020, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime

I was playing with 1 other player. I was a few seats to his right. I was dealt 8,2 and he got a natural. The upcard was an A, so the other player took even money. The dealer paid the even money, then proceeded to play her own hand without letting me hit my 8,2. She had a 3 in the hole and drew a 2, then an 8, for a total of 14, before realizing her mistake and calling the floor.

I pointed out to the floor that the 2 and 8 the dealer drew should have been my cards, which would have given me 20, so I should get those cards. The floor said she could only "back up" 1 card, so had the dealer push my hand and move on. I protested that I should have had a win (probably) with 20, but she wouldn't budge. As I didn't want to raise a stink over what was a table minimum bet, I took my push and let it go.

What's bugging me is that the dealer never drew to her hard 14 - seems like I should have asked the floor to let me play my total of 10 against the dealer's total of 14 and I'd either win or lose that bet, rather than taking a push, as it would be +EV instead of zero. Or better yet, let me hit my 10 even though the cards were out of order.

Did I handle it right? Did they?

The "right way" is very subjective. But if I had that happen in a place where I hoped to return...I wouldn't have even brought it to the attention of the dealer/pit. Especially on a minimum bet.

RS · 01-04-2020, 01:18 AM

I'm not really sure how I would have handled nor the best (subjective) way to handle it, since there are several factors...which essentially boils down to "you gotta be there to have a good informed decision". With that being said, if it's a minimum bet, I probably wouldn't raise a big stink over it. The furthest I'd probably take it is to inform the dealer, they call a floorperson and when he makes the hand a push then ask (politely) if they could back up the cards, if I could get the next card, or whatever else. If he still says it's a push, then just take the push and move on.

Sometimes you get screwed, sometimes you get a free roll. It's part of the game, just how it is. Probably best to be like, "Hey man, don't worry about it. I get it, mistakes happen. Shit I probably would've lost that hand anyway with my luck" and then be in the floorperson's good graces, instead of being some asshole* for fighting over a small bet. Especially for a small bet, don't worry about it. I don't know what the EV is for that hand, but it can't be too high. It's not like you had a max bet out there with a few splits and doubles with all hands being 19-21, then having them "push" those hands.

* Asshole in the floorperson's eyes, that is.

**Pariah** · 01-04-2020, 03:53 AM

Dealer error, you should have gotten the 20, and I would have persisted to complain until they take responsibility for their own mistakes.

**Meistro123** · 01-04-2020, 04:09 AM

I guess you would have been better off arguing you wanted to stay on 10 and thus no harm had occurred and the dealer should hit (or simply say you are fine with having been skipped and want to play the hand out). Since you are in a +EV situation with the dealer @ 14.

**Yule** · 01-04-2020, 05:59 AM

You have 10. Dealer has 14. You haven't acted yet (not your problem that the dealer revealed their hole card, and started hitting). Put the money up to double down.

**ZeeBabar** · 01-04-2020, 06:28 AM

You did the right thing, let it go.....

**ShipTheCookies** · 01-04-2020, 08:00 AM

After the dealers second hit to get to hard 14, I would've told her to just play her hand out. You shouldn't have said a peep to anyone else.

**Pariah** · 01-04-2020, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

You did the right thing, let it go.....

How is that the right thing? Just complain, you can get probably EV of $5-10 bucks out of complaining for 15 minutes. There are worse jobs than complaining for 20-40$/hour. And the casino has no ethical, moral, legal, any ground to stand on at all.

**Optimus Prime** · 01-04-2020, 09:25 AM

Yule nailed the math I think. But as this is my local store, pissing them off over a few dollars would have probably been -EV.

**Sharky** · 01-04-2020, 09:31 AM

i would've just doubled down the 8-2 vs 14....also, I've never heard of backing up any number of cards

usually the pit will offer you a 'back out' of your bet (even)....which, of course, i wouldn't have done either

**tomf23** · 01-04-2020, 10:06 AM

i had something similar the other day

I was in first base with a quarter in the circle
i turned around to tip the waitress looked back and the dealer skipped me
only one card came out and it was a ten.
so i said hey that's my card and she called the pit boss.

now if something like this happened where i was dealt in and someone else got skipped for example i'd wait until all of the cards came out before i said something because you're going to get to free roll the casino on the hand.

the pit boss said she can't back the cards up. i politely but firmly said that's not fair as I understand mistakes happen but no other cards had been dealt yet, i would understand if i didn't realize until later.
so first she gave the option to the other players as to whether or not they wanted to play their hands. some genius played his 12 against a dealer ten showing.

then a few minutes later she printed out a 50 dollar match play for me.

**BJcountingmaster** · 01-04-2020, 11:51 AM

Usually this type of error, PB will let you take your bet back pretending nothing happened. The nicer PB will let you hit until bust or satisfactory. If you bust, you take you bet back, (push) and if you win and you win as usual. As card counters, we should not be complaining on those trivial stuff. Just move on and make your EV.