Add 7m9c to HL to improve betting and surrender

[seriousplayer]

Of course, if you kept a side count of 7s and 9s you get more information But that is keeping two side counts and also these side counts are not a simple plus/minus side count.

Well, it is better than your three component side count that you invented for KO. It is a shame that after side counting that many cards your system can't even perform close to the Gordon Count. If that is the case you might as well just keep separate side counts of 7s and 9s.

My goal was, for the players who want to keep the HL, to come up with the simplest side count possible to improve the HL. I believe 7m9c is the simplest side count. It is level one plus/minus count and counts only two ranks and also neither of those ranks are in the primacy HL count making it even easier to count and less confusion.

I disagree! Because some savvy Hi-lo players also side count the 7s. Side counting one card is more simple than side counting two cards. I don't think that your system would outperform Hi-lo with side count of 7s that much.

Unfortunately, the 7m9c does not help with hard 15 surrender decisions. Only hard 14 and 13 surrender decisions.

This can be seen in the logic in the following example:

Surrender hard 14 v A if psrc = HL + 2*(7m9c) ? 6*dr

If 7m9c is positive then more 7s than 9s came out of the shoe and so there is a deficiency of 7s and excess of 9s left in the shoe. So the more positive 7m9c is the more likely dealer has a 9 in the hole giving dealer an A9 for a total of 20 and the less likely for the dealer to have a 7 in the hole giving the dealer an A7 for a total of 18. Also the deficiency of 7s means it is less likely for player to pick up a 7 if the player hits his hard 14 for a perfect 21 and more likely for player to pick up one of the excess 9s and bust his hard 14 if player hits. Thus the larger 7m9c is the more advantageous it is for the player to surrender on his hard 14 v A than hit. This logic agrees with the formula. As 7m9c increases, psrc increases and eventually psrc exceeds 6*dr and player surrenders.

What good is it when it helps with only two plays? Your 7m9c is not as good as you think. You haven't address insurance. Side counting the 7s itself with Hi-lo would improve the IC to .81 but I am not sure about 7m9c.

[DSchles]

You haven't address insurance.

Yes he has. He has said over and over that, for insurance, he simply uses the primary Hi-Lo with no adjustments. So, that is a non-issue.

Don

[seriousplayer]

Yes he has. He has said over and over that, for insurance, he simply uses the primary Hi-Lo with no adjustments. So, that is a non-issue.

Don

Than I choose Hi-lo with side count of 7 over Hi-lo + 7m9c since Hi-lo with side count of 7 has an index for insurance deviation. Therefore, improves the IC. Also, bjanalyst mention that his intent was to attack the Lucky Ladies side bet with his count system, in other words Hi-lo + 7m9c, since he is using the primary Hi-lo with no adjustment wouldn't that be the same as just using the Hi-lo itself for Lucky Ladies?

There will be no improvement over Lucky Ladies than.

[bjanalyst]

Than I choose Hi-lo with side count of 7 over Hi-lo + 7m9c since Hi-lo with side count of 7 has an index for insurance deviation. Therefore, improves the IC. Also, bjanalyst mention that his intent was to attack the Lucky Ladies side bet with his count system, in other words Hi-lo + 7m9c, since he is using the primary Hi-lo with no adjustment wouldn't that be the same as just using the Hi-lo itself for Lucky Ladies?

There will be no improvement over Lucky Ladies than.

The heading of my very first post was

Add 7m9c to HL to improve betting and surrender

I NEVER said 7m9c would help with Lucky Ladies or insurance.

If LL is offered use AA78mTc which also helps wurg insurance and hit/stand hard 12 v 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. I hesitate to even mention AA78mTc as I will get howls and screams that AA78mTc with HL is too difficult. Gronbog did sims on this. If LL is offered the effort of using AA78mTc is worthwhile.

But my intention here was to come up with the simplest side count that would help regular blackjack with no side bets. That is why I suggested 7m9c.

I had a glick in three of the too 6 original indices I posted. The indices were too small. I think I found the correct indices.

Let's see what happens

[seriousplayer]

The heading of my very first post was

Add 7m9c to HL to improve betting and surrender

You keep saying HL+7m9c improves betting and surrender, in other word playing, but you didn't quantify it by how much. For example, Hi-lo using side count of 7s would improve the BC from Hi-lo's .969 to .984 and IC from .76 to .81 using an insurance index deviation. Just side counting the 7s by itself I was able to improve the BC and IC simultaneously. How would you quantify it for Hi-lo + 7m9c?

I NEVER said 7m9c would help with Lucky Ladies or insurance.

If LL is offered use AA78mTc which also helps wurg insurance and hit/stand hard 12 v 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. I hesitate to even mention AA78mTc as I will get howls and screams that AA78mTc with HL is too difficult. Gronbog did sims on this. If LL is offered the effort of using AA78mTc is worthwhile.

Than you would have to learn two different count systems.

But my intention here was to come up with the simplest side count that would help regular blackjack with no side bets. That is why I suggested 7m9c.

I had a glick in three of the too 6 original indices I posted. The indices were too small. I think I found the correct indices.

Let's see what happens

Okay, simple compare to what? Most definitely not Hi-lo with side count 7 by itself because you are side counting two cards 7s and 9s.

[bjanalyst]

You keep saying HL+7m9c improves betting and surrender, in other word playing, but you didn't quantify it by how much. For example, Hi-lo using side count of 7s would improve the BC from Hi-lo's .969 to .984 and IC from .76 to .81 using an insurance index deviation. Just side counting the 7s by itself I was able to improve the BC and IC simultaneously. How would you quantify it for Hi-lo + 7m9c?

Than you would have to learn two different count systems.

Okay, simple compare to what? Most definitely not Hi-lo with side count 7 by itself because you are side counting two cards 7s and 9s.

I am not sure where you get including a side count of 7's with HL increases HL IC from 76% to 81%. KO included the 7's and its IC is 78%. The problem is counting the Aces as -1 hurts insurance when Aces is a non Ten and should be counted as +1 for insurance. Including a side count of 7s only increases IC to 78%.

Also Gronbog did the sim of HL w AA78mTc which increased IC to 98% and also helped with standing on hard 12 v 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. But it did not help with betting and for the shoe game betting is most important. So even with almost perfect insurance the HL SCORE did increase but was still significantly below the HO2 w ASC.

And 7m9c is NOT two different counts. It is ONE statistics. It is the difference of 7s played minus 9s played. The 7s are +1 and 9s are -1 It is a SINGLE integer you are remembering and SINGLE count and it s a very simple plus/minus level 1 count which counts just two ranks, 7s and 9s and neither rank is included in the primary HL count which makes it the easiest plus/minus side count to keep with the HL. This issue has been addressed multiple times in prior posts.

7m9c imparts some blackjack info as does a side counts of 7s would but 7m9s is easier to keep and is EXACT and does not require estimating decks played like a side count of 7s would to find excess or deficiency of 7s left in the shoe.

Also HL + (1/2)*(7m9c) has a BCC for S17, DAS, LS of 98.2% and the HL has 96.5%. Including a side count of 7s and adding 1/2 the deficiency of 7s gives BCC of 97.6% which is below the HL + (1/2)*(7m9c) BCC of 98.1%.

And you are not learning two different counts systems. You are using HL 90% of the time. You are using 7m9c only for betting and for the top 6 strategy changes. All other strategy changes are the HL so no new count system. That is what I mean by making this side count as simple as possible as you are also learning as just six additional adjustments to the HL.

As I explained before, Gronbog and I found a glitch in the HL w 7m9c top 6 strategy changes indices and I believe I have found the problem which I posted in a previous post.

What we are comparing is the increase in the HL SCORE when 7m9c is added as a side count to the HL and see who much the SCORE increases as compared to the HO2 w ASC SCORE.

This can only be answered after sims are done. So please be patient.

And so 7m9c helps with betting and late surrender.

If you ant help with insurance and Lucky Ladies then you need to use the much more difficult side count AA78mTc with the HL.

The gain from LL is so great that it would make the effort of keeping the complicated AA78mTc side count worthwhile.

But if no LL and you just want to increase the SCORE for regular blackjack, I think the much simpler 7m9c will work just as well as the much ore complicated AA78mTc and maybe better.

[DSchles]

This can only be answered after sims are done. So please be patient.

Just like you, right? Yet another 1,000-word post above, stating ad nauseam, for the 50th time, the same things you have written over and over again. You are clearly obsessive-compulsive with a complete and total inability to allow anyone to have the last word. It's a horrible feature that you are not alone in demonstrating.

So now, I'm counting the minutes -- or should it be seconds? -- before you are completely incapable of just letting this post sit without responding. Time stamp: 2:49 ET.

One, two, three, ...

Don

[seriousplayer]

I am not sure where you get including a side count of 7's with HL increases HL IC from 76% to 81%. KO included the 7's and its IC is 78%. The problem is counting the Aces as -1 hurts insurance when Aces is a non Ten and should be counted as +1 for insurance. Including a side count of 7s only increases IC to 78%.

Also Gronbog did the sim of HL w AA78mTc which increased IC to 98% and also helped with standing on hard 12 v 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. But it did not help with betting and for the shoe game betting is most important. So even with almost perfect insurance the HL SCORE did increase but was still significantly below the HO2 w ASC.

And 7m9c is NOT two different counts. It is ONE statistics. It is the difference of 7s played minus 9s played. The 7s are +1 and 9s are -1 It is a SINGLE integer you are remembering and SINGLE count and it s a very simple plus/minus level 1 count which counts just two ranks, 7s and 9s and neither rank is included in the primary HL count which makes it the easiest plus/minus side count to keep with the HL. This issue has been addressed multiple times in prior posts.

7m9c imparts some blackjack info as does a side counts of 7s would but 7m9s is easier to keep and is EXACT and does not require estimating decks played like a side count of 7s would to find excess or deficiency of 7s left in the shoe.

Also HL + (1/2)*(7m9c) has a BCC for S17, DAS, LS of 98.2% and the HL has 96.5%. Including a side count of 7s and adding 1/2 the deficiency of 7s gives BCC of 97.6% which is below the HL + (1/2)*(7m9c) BCC of 98.1%.

And you are not learning two different counts systems. You are using HL 90% of the time. You are using 7m9c only for betting and for the top 6 strategy changes. All other strategy changes are the HL so no new count system. That is what I mean by making this side count as simple as possible as you are also learning as just six additional adjustments to the HL.

As I explained before, Gronbog and I found a glitch in the HL w 7m9c top 6 strategy changes indices and I believe I have found the problem which I posted in a previous post.

What we are comparing is the increase in the HL SCORE when 7m9c is added as a side count to the HL and see who much the SCORE increases as compared to the HO2 w ASC SCORE.

This can only be answered after sims are done. So please be patient.

And so 7m9c helps with betting and late surrender.

If you ant help with insurance and Lucky Ladies then you need to use the much more difficult side count AA78mTc with the HL.

The gain from LL is so great that it would make the effort of keeping the complicated AA78mTc side count worthwhile.

But if no LL and you just want to increase the SCORE for regular blackjack, I think the much simpler 7m9c will work just as well as the much ore complicated AA78mTc and maybe better.

My question was how do you "measure" your Hi-lo + 7m9c. Who asked about KO+AA78mTc side count? You got to start answering my question and not start an answer that is totally unrelated to my question.

[bjanalyst]

Just like you, right? Yet another 1,000-word post above, stating ad nauseam, for the 50th time, the same things you have written over and over again. You are clearly obsessive-compulsive with a complete and total inability to allow anyone to have the last word. It's a horrible feature that you are not alone in demonstrating.

So now, I'm counting the minutes -- or should it be seconds? -- before you are completely incapable of just letting this post sit without responding. Time stamp: 2:49 ET.

One, two, three, ...

Don

You are correct. I should not be answering questions on posts that I have already answered.

New questions, OK to answer, Same questions, not OK to answer again and again.

I thought I was being polite answering the same question again but I should just say, read previous posts.

At any rate, Gronbog has agreed to do the sims with my corrected top 6 HL w 7m9c indices.

He will be doing three sims.

1. HL with just correction for betting using brc = HL + (1/2)*(7m9c) for betting instead of the HL for betting and using HL for all strategy changes.

2. HL with just changes for the top 6 HL w 7m9c strategy plays and no adjustments to betting, that is, HL is used for betting and for all strategy plays other than the top 6.

3. HL with 7m9c adjustments for betting and for the top 6 strategy changes.

The SCORE of HL and of 1, 2, 3, above and of HO2 w ASC will all be compared.

So after the results are in then a decision can be made if the extra work and effort in keeping the 7m9c with the HL is worth it or not.

[Stealth]

So after the results are in then a decision can be made if the extra work and effort in keeping the 7m9c with the HL is worth it or not.

And in the mean time, stop this insanity.

[Counting_Is_Fun]

Just like you, right? Yet another 1,000-word post above, stating ad nauseam, for the 50th time, the same things you have written over and over again. You are clearly obsessive-compulsive with a complete and total inability to allow anyone to have the last word. It's a horrible feature that you are not alone in demonstrating.

So now, I'm counting the minutes -- or should it be seconds? -- before you are completely incapable of just letting this post sit without responding. Time stamp: 2:49 ET.

One, two, three, ...

Don

Well it looks like he made it to almost 9 hours before he replied again. That being said, it might be a personal record lol.

[DSchles]

So after the results are in then a decision can be made if the extra work and effort in keeping the 7m9c with the HL is worth it or not.

Some of us have known the answer to this question for over a month.

Don

[bjanalyst]

Some of us have known the answer to this question for over a month.

Don

Does CV index generator program let you enter tag values for any count?

There seems to be a problem with my HL w 7m9c top 6 indices that I cannot figure out.

For betting HL w 7m9c improved SCORE but I do not have any idea what is happening with the top 6.

I will buy the CV Index generator program if it lets me calculate HL w 7m9c indices for the top 6.

I am interested if CV Index generator will let me enter the tag values for HL + 2*(7m9c) for example,

So does CV index Generator let me enter the tag values of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 0, -2, -1, -1 for the ranks 2, 3 ,4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, T, A and then let me generat indices with those tag values for my hard 14 and hard 13 surrender plays?

Please let me know if CV Index Generator can do this.

Thanks.