Need a debate on how to possibly measure all the intangeables of playing NMSE games

[BoSox]

NMSE is a house rule that is often associated with high-end rooms, that rule alone cannot be measured by plus or minus EV, but does, in fact, play a big significance in how a player attacks the game. I have played part-time for many years on both high-end NMSE games as well as the regular games without that rule. There are just so many, different variables involved (I could write at least 5 or 6 large paragraphs on the subject) that I thought this would make for a good discussion.

Of course, I will not mention my methods of attacking those games, as well as I do not expect anyone else who play those games to give their secrets away. Although there are many obvious and not so obvious things that a player should be aware of playing in NMSE games.

Like for the MOST part, the need for shorter sessions and being behind does not buy you extra time. The rules in the big room may have S17 versus H17 out on the floor which is very good but the number of units you bring into the big room should be MORE not less than what a player brings to a small room. In the big room, you will be playing more negative EV hands requiring the need for a bigger spread as there is only so much Wonging out that you can do. In the big room do not piss off much bigger bettors than you as the pit will get angry and respond, try to avoid playing with them (especially if they are regulars) if you can. One way of getting them angry is when they are playing alone and you not asking if they mind you taking a seat to play and you just sit down. Just looking for more opinions thanks.

[ZeeBabar]

I don’t ever Wong in so everything is nMSE for me. I just Wong out. Sometimes I play 2 hands to start, drop to one at minimum in neutral counts but not always go to two hands if the count goes back into positive territory. At some casinos, they don’t let you go back to 2 hands anyway and in others they do but I don’t always go back to two even if one can.

I am not sure what you are asking, you are a far greater AP than most anyone on this site.

[BoSox]

I am not sure what you are asking, you are a far greater AP than most anyone on this site.

ZeeBabar, thank you for the kind words but like I previously said that I am just a part-time player who does take the game seriously. Although, I read this board because of actual professional players who do post here, and I always am looking out for new tips to learn from them who possess a wealth of knowledge from playing full time. People can read all the books they want and practice with software all the time but I listen more to the people who are always playing in the trenches. Nothing like learning from someone with a lifetime of practical experience. That was what I was hoping to hear about what others experiences about playing NMSE high-end games thanks.

[Freightman]

ZeeBabar, thank you for the kind words but like I previously said that I am just a part-time player who does take the game seriously. Although, I read this board because of actual professional players who do post here, and I always am looking out for new tips to learn from them who possess a wealth of knowledge from playing full time. People can read all the books they want and practice with software all the time but I listen more to the people who are always playing in the trenches. Nothing like learning from someone with a lifetime of practical experience. That was what I was hoping to hear about what others experiences about playing NMSE high-end games thanks.

I’m surprised you didn’t get more responses. Here’s one.

As a generality, like most scenarios and particularly this one, comments need to adjusted to fit local scenarios which I think would vary widely on this topic.
Bosox says
Like for the MOST part, the need for shorter sessions and being behind does not buy you extra time.

Freightman says
True and false. Really depends on house tolerance. It’s easy to give examples on both sides of the spectrum. SCG (Goatlife) often commented on wild spreads and camping out.

Bosox says
The rules in the big room may have S17 versus H17 out on the floor which is very good

Freightman says
Your comments should be correct, but not always so. In the jurisdictions where I play the most, rules are legislated. In most stores, rules are all identical, so, no difference between lower and higher limit. However, some stores, the house has options - pretty much limited to ES10 surrender (NHC) surrender ace (after peak), RSA. Ironically, 1 chain of stores used to offer the better games, with better rules and deeper pen on the 5-100 games, real lousy pen and no surrender on the 10 and 25 min games. As a point if interest, S17 is not available.

Bosox says
but the number of units you bring into the big room should be MORE not less than what a player brings to a small room.

Freightman says
Goes without saying. Practically, if you don’t know whether you’ll be playing lower or upper limits, be prepared for either.

Bosox says
In the big room, you will be playing more negative EV hands requiring the need for a bigger spread as there is only so much Wonging out that you can do.

Freightman says
Very true. Further, in my locales, additional spreads are required over and above to compensate for poorer deck pen in hi limit vs main floor games. Leads to interesting gambits. So, the choice becomes great pen (at some stores) at crowded tables with lots of side bets at turtle like speed or heads up or mostly heads up with poorer pen with far greater hph. I choose game speed. Further, hi limit deck pen often varies depending on time of day.

Bosox says
in the big room do not piss off much bigger bettors than you as the pit will get angry and respond, try to avoid playing with them (especially if they are regulars)

Freightman says
Agree on not to piss them off in higher limit. What that means is variable. Example would be you with your min bet out with 12 v 2 and your ploppy table mate having 2x200 or 300 out. I will say something to the effect of - I don’t care what I do, hit ir stand. Do you have a preference. If your table mate makes the wrong choice, so be it. Cost is so very minor for standing and the pit loves a happy table. Of course, if he says - I don’t care (he doesn’t mean that) then I’ll do what I want. Further, however, anything more than min, I’ll do what I prefer to do. I see no reason to ignore a table where there is a whale. Yes, I know the arguments against that, but, if they’re that big if a whale, the table will be reserved. Table selection in my locales are limited, and they generally know Im counting anyways, albeit they think it’s poorly done. I’ve picked up great scavenging opportunities doing this.

Now, in the lower limits, do not piss off the Chinese mamas or any of the everyday regulars. They are there everyday and are a source of steady profits for the house. Having said that, I’m sure I’ve pissed off plenty of ploppies (not including the mamas). Some of those stories are pretty funny.

Bosox says
One way of getting them angry is when they are playing alone and you not asking if they mind you taking a seat to play and you just sit down. Just looking for more opinions thanks.

Freightman says
My locales version of nmse, allows the player to allow or not allow another player to join. My decision depends on you know what. Further, unless a table is reserved, there’s no reason for another player to object to my sitting down. Having said that, I've seen my share of shoes with big negatives ending up with max bets at the end. I may be asked to Immediately join, which I may or may not do depending on factors.

[BoSox]

Thank you Freightman, it is interesting to read how casinos rules are so different in Canada.

"

Now, in the lower limits, do not piss off the Chinese mamas or any of the everyday regulars. They are there everyday and are a source of steady profits for the house. Having said that, I’m sure I’ve pissed off plenty of ploppies (not including the mamas). Some of those stories are pretty funny."

Speaking of those Chinese mamas I have battled them for years in small and high-end rooms. I am glad that I do not know the language of what they say about me.

[ZeeBabar]

Talk about Chinease mamas, it also includes Vietnamese, Koreans, etc., its inevitable that you will piss them off. They get very upset if you switch from one hand to two, deviate from basic strategy, refuse to play side bets even!

[Midwest Player]

Talk about Chinease mamas, it also includes Vietnamese, Koreans, etc., its inevitable that you will piss them off. They get very upset if you switch from one hand to two, deviate from basic strategy, refuse to play side bets even!

I had a cute Vietnamese girl kissing and hugging me. She started to mimic my play and when I would bet big so would she. We were both winning our big bets and that was when the kissing and hugging began.

[Wave]

WTF.jpg

[ZeeBabar]

I had a cute Vietnamese girl kissing and hugging me. She started to mimic my play and when I would bet big so would she. We were both winning our big bets and that was when the kissing and hugging began.

Pits where it ended, not where it began matters. A good AP ends it at breakfast the next day. A better one, ends it about 45 minutes after he takes her to his room. The ploppy just gets blue balls.

[AngryCounter]

I’ve only played in one NMSE high limit room and I found it above and beyond the level of aggression compared to the floor. A guy actually told me he liked to play alone and the pit critters were treating me as if I they were doing me a favor. This is from a casino that looks like a warehouse and doesn’t offer any valuable comps like free rooms or shows (not that I really care).

My sims don’t like when I play the shoe all the way through at my min bet, but I’m comfy playing half my min bet to “keep the table moving” only with an outstanding penetration dealer. This unfortunately is not possible for my current BR.

Back at that casino NMSE doesn’t cost me any EV since there are at least 3 tables for me to jump between freely, they also reshuffle 5 min after the table goes dead.

It also goes without saying the EITS won’t be fooled so ratholing is a big no, short sessions until a TC +2 or better shoe is dealt until it finishes and end the session is how I plan to tackle it... win or lose...

[Yule]

BoSox - great topic. Thanks for starting the thread. It was nice chatting with you a few weeks back (away from the tables). Send me a PM.

[DSchles]

Finally, maybe we can start another debate on how to spell "intangibles"!

Don

[21forme]

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