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Thread: Coexist with another counter + plus buy in amounts + RA vs EV Max

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    Coexist with another counter + plus buy in amounts + RA vs EV Max

    Two interesting thread topics recently were issues evident on my most recent trip, I came across a very Interesting situation. First item, I was playing a DD game, stakes being 15-300. I was playing $25 off the top. Another fellow sat down, buying in for 1k and placing his min $15 bet off the top. Hmmm, wonder what my first clue was. My second “clue” was a positive count where he went to 2x200 or 300. I also immediately went to 2 squares, whispering to him that I wanted my share of cards, and would go to 2 hands if he did so. We coexisted quite nicely with him doing his thing while I went into my regular semi schtick routine doing mine, both of us playing 1 square without looking like we were in tandem. The interesting lesson here is that 2 counters can coexist without necessarily looking like the Bobsy twins. I also whispered to him, during the session, that buying for 1k with $15 for off the top bet is way too much of a tell. He understood.

    Second item, during our limited time together, on another deal, with about 20 cards dealt, and a halves RC of 7.5, he had 64 v dealer 10. With true of approx 4.65 he doubled his 200 or 250 bet, losing. I whispered to him that EV maxImizing double was true 4, with RA double of true 7. I’m not sure he understood. I was in my regular schtick routine, even though I was down at this table. The dealer said something, and I quipped something about Starting to play the game only 3 weeks prior. My new buddy said something to me about his thinking I’ve played the game for years. Yes, im sure there will be commentary about yacking at the table - that’s not the lesson to be gleaned here.

    In any event, he left shortly thereafter, also down. We did not exchange contact info. They’re many directions this thread can take. I’ll leave it at that. I bring up these points because I found them interesting. I’m not likely to respond further on this thread, though this should develop nicely on its own.

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    I don’t like another counter talking to me, let alone correcting me. I would have zero interest getting to know him. If i was at the table first, I would play a few rounds to assess our spreads and either continue (if he was spreading from $15 to 2 x $200 and my max bet was just $150 on one hand) or leave. If I arrived at table after he did, I would likely leave or play at another table.

  3. #3


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    I ran into this problem several times a few weeks ago. The first was on a DD game and it was quite obvious as we took insurance at the same exact time etc. It looked quite bad so I decided to move to another table. On a shoe I do not really care as I will wong out and move around. I think its better to move as they will police it more carefully on hand held. Sometimes at a full table if we are on opposite ends I do not care but if we are sitting right next to each other I think its better to move.

  4. #4


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    What I recommend is that you never reveal yourself to another counter. I won't even reveal myself if the pit boss is hawking my game too closely. Instead, switch to basic strategy, maybe even make a basic strategy error or two on a min bet, observe them discretely, determine if they are a counter (you will get some warning signs right off, maybe an unusual basic strategy play like hitting A7 v T or 12 v 3, or a correct index play), and then never play at the same table with them again for the rest of my life.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Meistro123 View Post
    What I recommend is that you never reveal yourself to another counter. I won't even reveal myself if the pit boss is hawking my game too closely. Instead, switch to basic strategy, maybe even make a basic strategy error or two on a min bet, observe them discretely, determine if they are a counter (you will get some warning signs right off, maybe an unusual basic strategy play like hitting A7 v T or 12 v 3, or a correct index play), and then never play at the same table with them again for the rest of my life.
    Agreed, but some AP’s tend to have a need to show off that they know someone is counting. I once played a side bet and this idiot had to tell me “you know the count needs to be over 7 before that bet is EV”.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    Agreed, but some AP’s tend to have a need to show off that they know someone is counting. I once played a side bet and this idiot had to tell me “you know the count needs to be over 7 before that bet is EV”.
    I would respond to him: "No, I use another counting system, where it's 6. But I don't side-count aces, as you do." ;-)

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    I would respond to him: "No, I use another counting system, where it's 6. But I don't side-count aces, as you do." ;-)
    Plus one.... I just gave him a quizzical look as if he was an idiot.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by Member Name Hidden View Post
    Who is the idiot to play a side bet you know nothing about, only to find out it has an 8% house edge?
    Its actually a higher house edge, with a strike point of about +5 at dd and +7 at 6d, assuming of course, that I’m right about the side count (based
    On the manner of comments)

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Member Name Hidden View Post
    Who is the idiot to play a side bet you know nothing about, only to find out it has an 8% house edge?
    I have been told that I was saved from suspicion because I occasionally played a side bet. Many card counters never play the side bet so placing a bet on occasion when pit has wandered over, helps.

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