Average Yearly Earnings for full time player

[Baberuth]

Family is great and all... but it will never take the place of gambling.

Another quote on the list "What not to show your wife." Funny guy ZG.

[mofungoo]

As for our marketing, I have seen thousands of our promotional materials, but have never seen one that said anything about inviting "degenerates", card counters, and theives to come play. We invite recreational gamblers, people that go to movies and stock car races and hang out with beautiful people. The scum come uninvited.

Hi, bossman. I have enjoyed reading your posts and think you are a good example of an enlightened casino manager. I go to movies, like live entertainment, go to stock car races, and have several friends who are high rolling craps players. I am a recreational player who happens to play a winning game of blackjack. I interact well with other players, I tip the the dealers when I win, and get along with pit personnel. I might win $1000 in a session and up to $3000 or so from one store in a years time. I also have losing sessions in the $1000 per session range. Would you consider me to be a problem and would you back me off when you found out that I was counting cards in your store?

[Intermediate]

Why do we want to kep high limit counters out of our shops? Next time you are in MacDonalds, ask them if they would like to share their profit with you. Ask the shop manager if he feels okay with you putting your hand in his cash registers. I think you'll probably get about the same answer as we gave a certain counter that we discouraged eighteen months ago when he came back in today to play. We do have long memories, and once you're busted, you're busted forever with us.
As for our marketing, I have seen thousands of our promotional materials, but have never seen one that said anything about inviting "degenerates", card counters, and theives to come play. We invite recreational gamblers, people that go to movies and stock car races and hang out with beautiful people. The scum come uninvited.
If being all of the things that Al Mucous described is unappealing to you, and you are honestly looking at a less than a six figure income, then become a dealer. Maryland is hiring for their new casino and projecting that the dealers will make 65k, plus a full benefit package, insurance, vacations, profit sharing, and the whole thing. You can go out for a beer after work and talk about the job, stuff completely unrelated to work, hang with the gang, or whatever, because the pressure is gone. You'll be able to practice your counting until you reach an expert level, and when you fly out to Las Vegas to play you can identify yourself as a dealer and all of the pitcritters (love that word) will be your friends. Or just keep trying to slink around and never get a chance to openly practice what you have spent so much time learning. But I docount have to tell you, today we recognized one counter an took away all his fun and we caught one past-poster that we had arrested for cheating. By and large it was exhilerating!

Mr Bossman - I appreciate your view. At the risk of asking a naïve question - I was recently at a table with another player who was a dealer and clearly had a peer relationship with the working dealer and the pit. He was betting green to mid black, spreading wildly to two hands and sitting out negative counts without any effort at cover. Didn't take much of a genius to catch on. Why is it OK for a Dealer to have his "hands in the cash register" and not be thought of as one of the undesirables? Seems like there is a double standard. OK, I get it he's one of the "guys" so as a player/cc he might get more tolerance, but if he's not undesirable, why would a non-dealer cc who plays with respect not be afforded the same opportunity?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

KJ's post is worthy of Kudos.

Incidentally, you are asking for the median income. The mean income would be horridly misleading.

The median income is lower by far, but far more informative.

[Norm]

Do you pay SS and medicare on your passive investments? The money is distributed as a capital gain, not as income. You didn't make the money, the corp. did and it distributed the profits to the shareholders.

Careful here. I believe you can chose to have an LLC taxed either as pass-thru income, or as a corporation. If pass-thru, you pay ordinary income tax. If as a corporation, you could declare capital gains on your personal income tax if the distribution was profit, not salary. But, in that case, the LLC would also be taxed for income prior to distribution and you would end up double-taxed.

I'm far from expert. This would definitely require an accountant.

[shadroch]

Careful here. I believe you can chose to have an LLC taxed either as pass-thru income, or as a corporation. If pass-thru, you pay ordinary income tax. If as a corporation, you could declare capital gains on your personal income tax if the distribution was profit, not salary. But, in that case, the LLC would also be taxed for income prior to distribution and you would end up double-taxed.

I'm far from expert. This would definitely require an accountant.

Yes, the LLC is taxed first, but the combined rate is lower than your individua lincome tax rate rate as you are avoiding the almost 15% SS and medicare taxes, and paying capital gains tax rather than income tax.
You absolutely should not do this on your own, and most certainly need a good accountant. Nor should anyone take tax advice from a chat room.

[sagefr0g]

...
As for our marketing, I have seen thousands of our promotional materials, but have never seen one that said anything about inviting "degenerates", card counters, and theives to come play. We invite recreational gamblers, people that go to movies and stock car races and hang out with beautiful people. The scum come uninvited.
.....

never saw anything specific in promotional materials referring to either rec gamblers or ap's, degenerates, whatever.
but surely you know the odds are scum (whatever that may mean) will receive or be exposed to promotional materials, no?
just the chance the casino takes to reward the good guys?
no disrespect intended.

[Ouchez]

Bossman,

I enjoy your posts and your smart azz attitude, keep it coming. (Although I think you are embellishing freely as to your SKILLZ).

I think in my ideal world that the casino needs to gamble some, just like the player, after all, the casino does nothing good for society, not really, you produce nothing, no product, and since society would be just as good without you, probably better,,,you also should be forced to gamble. That would mean that when you offer a game there is no booting a player that does not cheat, and I would force you by law to offer games of the caliber of Penn., for instance.





Ouchez

[Goatlife]

i really think if the player has the motivation and passion to succedd at this they can do.. but there is a HUGE BUT.

you have to have a passion for it because if i gave myself an honest assesment i prob could of made more money if i put the extra focus on my career. With that being said. on my weekend trips i try to atleast treat myself to a really nice dinner and a movie in the hotel so at least i have 4 hours of a week of rest... this weekend alone im drivng a round trip of about 500-600 miles....do let anyone fool you if you looking to make 50k+ a year form this...THIS IS REAL WORK AND NEEDS TO BE TREATED LIKE A BUSINESS.

You can also do what babe ruth does and i think its an awesome way to travel..........i am just a money hungry young buck....soo im looking for the cheese.

to date... from september i have logged 295 hours and have a profit of 56k. With a top bet of anyway with 2x300-2x600 most of the hours where at 2x300 and as my bank grew i slowly increase. I also have a good noumber of hours at other things in there as well....Let me tell you i worked my ass of for that but my real goal is 100k....some people may think im gready ...so be it....I have spent countless hours researching and traveling all on top of a fulltime job......i truly like this line of work and thats why its still enjoyable to me... the travel does suck though.. and i tend to get sick more often...although still a nice side income ontop of my regular job.

[Baberuth]

O, You are one of my favorites, but you were a little hard on the Bossman. I too like his posts and he gives a decent view of the “other” side. I would like Al to rewrite his post and list all of the positive views he can. I think he went big time negative for a reason, but I don’t think it is as bad as he portrayed or do I think he believes it to be so dark side. Al’s post was good for dreamers who don’t understand that the pro AP is not what you perceive. KJ always is almost too giving with his experiences, but for those who have read his posts, there is much to be learned from his story. This entire thread is educational and newbies should can learn much beyond counting and if they are coachable, it should be priceless. Thanks for sharing.
Bossman, I hope you answer Intermediate’s question.
Flash, I know you could add expertise here.

[KJ]

KJ always is almost too giving with his experiences, but for those who have read his posts, there is much to be learned from his story.

KJ's post is worthy of Kudos.

Thanx Baberuth and Flash. Flash, I am just happy you were able to read it. I hope that means, your recovery is going well.

[moo321]

Careful here. I believe you can chose to have an LLC taxed either as pass-thru income, or as a corporation. If pass-thru, you pay ordinary income tax. If as a corporation, you could declare capital gains on your personal income tax if the distribution was profit, not salary. But, in that case, the LLC would also be taxed for income prior to distribution and you would end up double-taxed.

I'm far from expert. This would definitely require an accountant.

Norm is right here. Shadroch, I believe you are conflating business income with capital gain or dividend income. Business income, from a partnership, LLC, or S-Corp, is ordinary income.

If you are unincorporated, you pay income and payroll tax on all of your winnings. If you incorporate as a C corp, you pay corporate income tax, then dividend rate (not capital gains rate) when your receive distributions. There are some arcane exceptions that would re-categorize your distributions as something other than a dividend, but they are WAY outside of the scope of anything you would be doing as a professional gambler (usually moving capital property around, selling stock, etc.)

Now, if you incorporate as an S Corp, you would pay income tax on everything. But, you would only pay payroll tax on the part categorized as "salary", while the part categorized as business income would not be subject to payroll tax. The IRS expects you to pay yourself a "fair" salary, but the controversial issue here is "what is a fair salary?" and I can't answer that question without giving tax advice.

Also note that, when setting up an LLC, you can choose to be taxed as either a C corp or S corp. So, your legal entity is an LLC, but your tax entity is a C corp or S corp.

[moo321]

Al Mucous' post is fantastic. There really is a profound moral evil to casinos, and you have to be careful to avoid it. Personally, I have found that being a full-time professional gambler is not for me. Could I do it? Yes. But I find it's a lot more fun when I'm not playing with the rent money. I have taken free trips all over the country, stayed in some of the finest hotels in the world, eaten gourmet meals at some of the finest restaurants, and made a lot of money. I will continue to do that. But, I have found that playing full-time is incompatible with my family life and spiritual life as a Christian.

That said, I know a lot of people who make a lot of money at this, and really enjoy it.