I say to the naysayers of Zee.
“Zee drives traffic” .
I simmed these plays and I barely lose a dollar of EV an hour for all of them (minus the betting cover). I’ve read and heard in so many places that cover play is needed for longevity (and to boost comps by lowering their rating of your skill level), but I don’t like the idea of playing incorrectly. I understand not using the playing cover but would you recommend not going to table minimum every time a new shoe starts? It seems like counter behavior for me to do that.Originally Posted by ZeeBabar
When you say red chip tables, do you mean red chips as minimum bets or red chips referring to all bets? Because I’m a red chip player that spreads into multiple greens at higher counts.
The casino is too far for me to book short sessions, that’s why I am investigating heavy and consistent cover plays and also a player’s card to make up for those losses and generate more EV. I really only have the option of playing longer sessions, but I do split them up by eating, walking to my car, long bathroom breaks, etc.
I don’t vary between one and two spots, I play all counts at 2 hands spreading 1-15 but I do leave at very negative counts.
Red chip means ramble minimums of $5 to $10 or $15. Red chip denominations are $5 ones.
When you say you play “ at all counts at two hands spreading 1-15” means what? That you play all hands, negative and positive? When you say you spread 1-15, does it mean 2 hands of $10 to 2 hands of $150 each?
In general, in a large casino with multiple tables of $10 minimum games, $25 minimum games and a High Limit area, surveillance is unlikely to be focused on the red chip tables and is often at the request of pit personnel who might request it if they think there is a good card counter at such a table. Thus, using consistent cover plays is unnecessary. For example, I will stand on 16 vs 10 at counts of over TC-1, but when is negative, I will hit that hand, the same with taking insurance. I won’t take insurance on minimum bets, take when I have more money on the table. All these decisions include an act where I am taking my time, unsure what to do, asking for advice, mentioning gut says I should hit or stand, similar comments and more.
A lot of time, the pit don’t know much more than basic strategy and when you hit that 10 vs. 16, they think you are dumb. They don’t know deviations.
in time, you learn to assess heat, be aware of where the pit people are, keep an eye on when the phone rings at the Pit podium, aware when a pit person is on the phone, aware of what others are betting and you make adjustments.
I spread to a max bet of $75 on two hands to stay under checks play and my minimum bet is whatever table minimum is. I’ve gotten some advice recently from an older player that says that deliberately staying under checks play as well as making my minimum bet the table minimum is not a good idea for longevity. I play all counts, positive and negative, as well as play two hands always. I will, however, leave the table if the count is VERY negative (-4 or so).
That’s good to hear that surveillance is mainly focused on high limit and not red chip play. My main concern is the eye in the sky, and not the pit bosses, who I can easily fool with misplays and a good act. Is it not true that certain misplays can both alleviate suspicions and increase comps (because of your lower skill rating?). Many of the misplays I am considering cost next to nothing in EV and can be paid for by playing another 30 seconds at the table. I am considering the fact that deviations may look like misplays but deviations won’t fool the counter-catching software.
As for the heat of my play, the worst heat I’ve gotten was a pit person either answering or calling someone on the phone while staring me down. It made me feel like I need to alter my play somehow if I want any longevity, especially with a player’s card.
This is helping me a lot and I appreciate the info.
Do not brush off the very important significance of the minimum bet by you just saying whatever it is. The difference between a $10 minimum and a $5 minimum table either halves or doubles your spread. If you are spreading up to two hands at $75 each on a $10 table and Wonging out at a TC of -4 sounds terrible, especially, if the cut and rules are shitty.
Listen to Bosox. I didn’t review the thread to see what the cut was. The point he is making is that you need the spread to overcome the cost of your minimum waiting bets. Using either a 10, or 15 min with an absolute cap of 75 is asking for trouble.
Now, for another day, they’re some alternate 1,2 hand strategies you can utilize.
RatherNotGiveMyRealName, in your case I would get a player's card. They are going to remember you with or without a player's card if you are playing as much as once a month. I'm remembered at some casinos where I play only once or twice a year. If this is your home casino, play at the red chip level. Rathole chips. I understand you have a long drive and have to play long sessions. So do I. Some casinos are very tolerant and some are not. I personally, would not play with any cover unless I know someone is watching. At the end of a session never show how many chips you really have unless you've been playing heads up.
I don't always get a player's card. I like to save a casino or two where I always play unrated. In fact, Onedia casino was one I always played unrated at mostly because I heard their comps suck and I'm too far away to go there that often and use them. However, last time I was there I started out playing unrated, but decided to get something to eat. They had a special where you get 10% off a steak if you have a player's card. I decided to sign up for a player's card to just get the 10% off.
Now most of my player's cards were gotten years ago when they didn't swipe your ID. They just copied down the info and had no picture. Damn, this place took my ID and put it in some machine and copied my picture and the whole works. If I known that I would have not gotten a card. I got something to eat and the waitress didn't care if I had the player's card or not. She didn't even want to see it. She just gave me the 10% discount. I also got $5 in free play for signing up for a card, but forgot to use it. I decided when I went back to play I would continue to play unrated as the little time I had left wouldn't be good for anything. I do regret getting a card there, but at my age makes little difference as I don't have that many active playing years left.
Last edited by Midwest Player; 11-02-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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That’s a good story. I’ve pretty much decided to get a player’s card at this point, it just makes sense. Mainly because they track me anyway. What do you mean by playing at the red chip level, does that mean that my minimum bet is a red chip or should I only bet red chips and not green chips?
Last edited by RatherNotGiveMyRealName; 11-03-2019 at 09:55 PM.
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