European blackjack - advantage over the house in start?!?

**Sprinter** · 03-08-2013, 04:01 AM

Hello!

I have a few questions about European blackjack. The specific rules are as follows:

Six decks
Dealer stands on soft 17
Double On Hard/Soft 9-11
Player may double after a split
No-peek (player loses total bet, including after doubling or splitting, if dealer has blackjack)
Player can resplit to 4 hands
Player can resplit aces
Multiple draws after ace split
Blackjack pays 3:2
Insurance pays 2:1
Early surrender against 10
6-card Charlie automatically pays 2 to 1
777 pays 3 to 2 automatically
75-80% penetration
1 burn card

1. What is the house edge with this rules?
On this site http://blackjackit.com/blackjack-too...ge-calculator/ I have the edge 0.019% over the casino playing only basic strategy. Is this correct?
Does it mean that I have the edge over a casino in long run playing only basic strategy with this rules? Can I make money without counting cards on long run with this rules?

2. What is basic strategy with this rules when the dealer have an ace and player two aces? Hit or split? I think hit but on this site says split? http://www.beatingbonuses.com/bjstrategy.php What is correct answer?

3. Effect for 6-card Charlie in blackjack rule variation is 0.16%. What is effect on rule variation when 6-card Charlie automatically pays 2 to 1? Same 0.16% or have a difference?

4. If I have the edge over the casino in start, does it mean that I have edge on TC 0 and TC 1?
Does it change something in bet spread?

**Gronbog** · 03-10-2013, 03:38 PM

A couple of clarifications:
Does the 6 card charlie pay 2:1 after splitting?
Does 777 pay 3/2 after splitting?
No doubling on soft totals (including after splitting aces)?

**Gronbog** · 03-11-2013, 11:05 AM

One more clarification. Since this is ENHC, late surrender is essentially early surrender. You mentioned that early surrender vs 10 is allowed. Is surrender offered vs any other up-cards? 9, or Ace for example?

**Sprinter** · 03-11-2013, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

A couple of clarifications:
Does the 6 card charlie pay 2:1 after splitting?
Does 777 pay 3/2 after splitting?
No doubling on soft totals (including after splitting aces)?

Yes, 6 card charlie pay 2:1 after splitting, and 777 pay 3/2 after splitting.
We can double on soft totals (including after splitting aces), but only A,8, A,9 and A,10 and if you double on A,8 and get deuce, this is not 21 than 11.

**Sprinter** · 03-11-2013, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

One more clarification. Since this is ENHC, late surrender is essentially early surrender. You mentioned that early surrender vs 10 is allowed. Is surrender offered vs any other up-cards? 9, or Ace for example?

We can surrender on any other up-cards, but we can't on Ace, and if we choose to surrender, we must do that before the dealer start dealing cards.

**Gronbog** · 03-12-2013, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sprinter

We can double on soft totals (including after splitting aces), but only A,8, A,9 and A,10 and if you double on A,8 and get deuce, this is not 21 than 11.

You've got me confused here, but it doesn't matter at the end of the day for the purposes of determining the house/player edge with the correct basic strategy. One would never double on these hands. These could, however, be relevant as index plays.

Originally Posted by Sprinter

We can surrender on any other up-cards, but we can't on Ace, and if we choose to surrender, we must do that before the dealer start dealing cards.

OK, so if I'm reading this correctly, there is no surrender at all vs a dealer ace. Whether the other surrenders are before or while the hands are played out is irrelevant, since the dealer doesn't check (or even take?) his hole card before the surrender decision.

**sickofpoker** · 03-12-2013, 09:17 AM

"Can I make money without counting cards on long run with this rules?"

Let me answer this question for you. I haven't run any numbers for your game, but if you have a 0.019% edge without counting, you are going to have much bigger swings and would require a very large bankroll. That is $1 for every $5263 wagered. The so-called "long run" with this kind of edge is going to take a very long time to "reach." Additionally, mistakes just playing BS should be rare, but might occur frequently enough to put you in negative territory. In any case, it is inadvisable to play without counting unless you can gain some other kind of benefit from it.

**Gronbog** · 03-12-2013, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sprinter

6-card Charlie automatically pays 2 to 1
777 pays 3 to 2 automatically

When you say "automatically" I assume this means that these hands win even if the dealer has blackjack.

Originally Posted by Sprinter

Yes, 6 card charlie pay 2:1 after splitting, and 777 pay 3/2 after splitting.
We can double on soft totals (including after splitting aces), but only A,8, A,9 and A,10 and if you double on A,8 and get deuce, this is not 21 than 11.

I think I finally figured out this one. Are you saying that the A,8 A,9 and A,10 are treated as 9, 10 and 11 respectively when doubling? That would mean that A,8+A is 20, A,8+2 is 11 and A,9+A is 21. Correct?

**Sprinter** · 03-12-2013, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

Does 777 pay 3/2 after splitting?

Correction: 777 doesn't pay 3/2 after splitting!

**Sprinter** · 03-12-2013, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

When you say "automatically" I assume this means that these hands win even if the dealer has blackjack.

Yes

**Sprinter** · 03-12-2013, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

I think I finally figured out this one. Are you saying that the A,8 A,9 and A,10 are treated as 9, 10 and 11 respectively when doubling? That would mean that A,8+A is 20, A,8+2 is 11 and A,9+A is 21. Correct?

Yes, that is correct!

**bejammin075** · 03-12-2013, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

I think I finally figured out this one. Are you saying that the A,8 A,9 and A,10 are treated as 9, 10 and 11 respectively when doubling? That would mean that A,8+A is 20, A,8+2 is 11 and A,9+A is 21. Correct?

I've heard that this is sometimes the rule in some games, but it would be infuriating to me as a player to double on A,8 and catch a 2 and be told that just this one and only one time, the player has no choice about how to decide whether he wants to use the Ace as high or low in his hand. The same casino probably has a H17 game somewhere on the floor where a dealer A,5 hits and gets another A, and for the casino's benefit decides they will count one as high and one as low to make a dealer 17.

**Sprinter** · 03-13-2013, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

OK, so if I'm reading this correctly, there is no surrender at all vs a dealer ace. Whether the other surrenders are before or while the hands are played out is irrelevant, since the dealer doesn't check (or even take?) his hole card before the surrender decision.

When the dealer has an ace we can take insurance, but not surrender. Surrender is only allowed on dealer's 2-10 cards. Because this is ENHC game the dealer take his "hole card" from shoe after players.