Long Term Win on Player’s Card

**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-25-2019, 11:35 AM

I am considering relinquishing my ID to get a player’s card because of the comps and general familiarity the pit experiences when you hand them a player’s card. I originally decided not to get one but I might change my mind as I am adding a whole slew of misplays for cover/longevity.

My main question is this: Does the pit track how much you actually lose/win as well as what you are worth to them per hour (based on average bet and playing skill) or do they just track the latter. If they track the former, I obviously cannot get a player’s card as I will be identified as a long-term winner.

Thanks!

**ZeeBabar** · 10-25-2019, 11:51 AM

You can generally, given your stakes and spread, get away with a Players Card for a few years. Many pros use a Players Card at one chain so they could get comped rooms at certain destinations (Las Vegas, AC, etc).

yes, they track all of it but, there are precautions you could take including stakes (red chips and staying off Hl rooms where more attention is placed helps). You should regularly check your win/loss record at the Players Desk, make sure to book losing sessions, rathole judiciously, keep your wins under $1k, have a ratio of win/lose sessions as close to 50% (not win/loss amounts obviously). A winning personality, age, looks, manner etc., all play a part in how long you get away with it.

Better advice can only be offered if we knew whether you were getting one at a local casino or elsewhere.

**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-25-2019, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

You can generally, given your stakes and spread, get away with a Players Card for a few years. Many pros use a Players Card at one chain so they could get comped rooms at certain destinations (Las Vegas, AC, etc).

yes, they track all of it but, there are precautions you could take including stakes (red chips and staying off Hl rooms where more attention is placed helps). You should regularly check your win/loss record at the Players Desk, make sure to book losing sessions, rathole judiciously, keep your wins under $1k, have a ratio of win/lose sessions as close to 50% (not win/loss amounts obviously). A winning personality, age, looks, manner etc., all play a part in how long you get away with it.

Better advice can only be offered if we knew whether you were getting one at a local casino or elsewhere.

This is great info, thank you! I am a red chip/green chip player. I could get into ratholing but would need some ideas on how to do it with a certain level of impunity, or at least under the radar, as everything is recorded. I didn’t realize that I could just go check my win/loss record at the front desk. That makes staying a “long term loser” easier.

The casino I play at is local, so longevity is #1. It’s also a massive Indian casino if that helps.

I’m really looking to play at this casino for as long as I possibly can. Preferably forever, but obviously that is kind of a dream. My longevity will be increased substantially by the playing cover I am using because it’s a lot of misplays. Also increasing my longevity is that I am a low stakes player playing in $5 units.

**ZeeBabar** · 10-25-2019, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName

This is great info, thank you! I am a red chip/green chip player. I could get into ratholing but would need some ideas on how to do it with a certain level of impunity, or at least under the radar, as everything is recorded. I didn’t realize that I could just go check my win/loss record at the front desk. That makes staying a “long term loser” easier.

The casino I play at is local, so longevity #1. It’s also a massive Indian casino if that helps.

putting away a few Green Chips during dealer change, palming a couple of Green Chips on visit to bathroom, etc, works but requires awareness that you are not being observed. You should also cash the rat holed chips later (or use them on your next trip) because when pit watches dealer color you up, they will sometimes call the cashier and ask them to check how many chips you us3 at cashier. Danger is that once they decide you are a rathole, they assign all missing chips to you.

Dont fall for the tendency to play long sessions to get back to even, booking losses is good. Losing, check out, come later.

If if you come to play on a different shift and dealer asks you for card, shake your head in an ambiguous “No”. If you win, walk away. If you lose, find your card, book a loss, ask for meal comp.

**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-25-2019, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

putting away a few Green Chips during dealer change, palming a couple of Green Chips on visit to bathroom, etc, works but requires awareness that you are not being observed. You should also cash the rat holed chips later (or use them on your next trip) because when pit watches dealer color you up, they will sometimes call the cashier and ask them to check how many chips you us3 at cashier. Danger is that once they decide you are a rathole, they assign all missing chips to you.

Dont fall for the tendency to play long sessions to get back to even, booking losses is good. Losing, check out, come later.

If if you come to play on a different shift and dealer asks you for card, shake your head in an ambiguous “No”. If you win, walk away. If you lose, find your card, book a loss, ask for meal comp.

That discovering the card tactic is a good one and I’ll use it liberally. A big issue with the player’s card that I failed to mention in the original post is that I was backed off of a neighboring casino that scans I.D. at the door. I’m worried that my I.D. is in a database and that if I sign up for a player’s card, I can get identified as a counter immediately. Thoughts?

**Midwest Player** · 10-25-2019, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName

That discovering the card tactic is a good one and I’ll use it liberally. A big issue with the player’s card that I failed to mention in the original post is that I was backed off of a neighboring casino that scans I.D. at the door. I’m worried that my I.D. is in a database and that if I sign up for a player’s card, I can get identified as a counter immediately. Thoughts?

Find out if you are in a data base. There are some members here who have access to such information. You will have to trust somebody with your real name.

**ZeeBabar** · 10-26-2019, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName

That discovering the card tactic is a good one and I’ll use it liberally. A big issue with the player’s card that I failed to mention in the original post is that I was backed off of a neighboring casino that scans I.D. at the door. I’m worried that my I.D. is in a database and that if I sign up for a player’s card, I can get identified as a counter immediately. Thoughts?

Were you backed off while using your card? What do you mean canning the ID? If you mean they glanced to see if you were. 21, then let you in, it’s not an an issue. Often they do not connect scanning the ID at the door and backing off. There are different type of back offs. One is simply telling you not to play BJ, another is being asked to leave casino and escorting you to the door.

**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-26-2019, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Were you backed off while using your card? What do you mean canning the ID? If you mean they glanced to see if you were. 21, then let you in, it’s not an an issue. Often they do not connect scanning the ID at the door and backing off. There are different type of back offs. One is simply telling you not to play BJ, another is being asked to leave casino and escorting you to the door.

My I.D. was scanned at the front door to see if it was valid and the backoff was just for blackjack, not an escort to the door. I am banking on the backoff not being connected to the scanning of the I.D.

**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-26-2019, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Midwest Player

Find out if you are in a data base. There are some members here who have access to such information. You will have to trust somebody with your real name.

I would love to see if I'm in a data base but I have no idea who to ask.

**Midwest Player** · 10-26-2019, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName

I would love to see if I'm in a data base but I have no idea who to ask.

I'm not going to mention any handles for you to ask. I will say I asked a member of this site to check for me and I was told I was not in OSN. If you have been reading this site's posts for a few years you probably will have a good idea of who has access to this information. I can think of 3 or 4 who probably can help you. What I did was private message them and asked them if they had access to OSN and if they would consider looking me up. If they said yes, then I private message them my real name.

**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-26-2019, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Midwest Player

I'm not going to mention any handles for you to ask. I will say I asked a member of this site to check for me and I was told I was not in OSN. If you have been reading this site's posts for a few years you probably will have a good idea of who has access to this information. I can think of 3 or 4 who probably can help you. What I did was private message them and asked them if they had access to OSN and if they would consider looking me up. If they said yes, then I private message them my real name.

Okay thank you for the info, I'll be on the lookout.

**sn1per** · 10-26-2019, 09:12 PM

I don’t think you should even consider getting a Players card at your level. The comps and offers you’ll get won’t mean much as your average bet is relatively low. And you’ll be risking your presumably clean name on a low EV counting game. What if you get backed off and databased? There are people in OSN with top bets as low as 2x60. If the casino is going to sweat you over small bets, what makes you think that they won’t watch you rated. If it’s a large casino, they are unlikely to remember you unless playing super often. No need to use any betting or playing cover if your betting red to light green IMO. Edge is too small.

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**RatherNotGiveMyRealName** · 10-26-2019, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by sn1per

I don’t think you should even consider getting a Players card at your level. The comps and offers you’ll get won’t mean much as your average bet is relatively low. And you’ll be risking your presumably clean name on a low EV counting game. What if you get backed off and databased? There are people in OSN with top bets as low as 2x60. If the casino is going to sweat you over small bets, what makes you think that they won’t watch you rated. If it’s a large casino, they are unlikely to remember you unless playing super often. No need to use any betting or playing cover if your betting red to light green IMO. Edge is too small.

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I wasn't originally going to get a player's card. Then I read "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" by Ian Anderson. I calculated the difference in EV between my game with generated indices and my game with all of the cover plays he suggests including the surrendering cover plays. The difference is 6.5% to look like a complete idiot. That brings my win rate down from just over $40 an hour to just under. I decided that I am going to learn to play this way to improve my longevity, as this is the only casino within reasonable driving distance for me (other than the one I got backed off from which is a tiny place 5 minutes away). Because of this heavy cover play, I am seriously considering getting a player's card. I haven't made the decision yet as I am not 100% sure what I am getting into but I appreciate the info/opinions. I play once a week on random days. It just seems like a good way to generate extra EV as a little guy and one making so many cover plays anyway. Thoughts?