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Thread: First Time Playing - Cheated by Casino!! Ho Chunk Wisconsin Dells

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    First Time Playing - Cheated by Casino!! Ho Chunk Wisconsin Dells



    Never played blackjack at a casino. Played poker for years and did well. Have been practicing counting and spreading at home w poker chips, recording everything, studying.. Decide to hit up the closest joint to home.


    I was running red hot at first and playing really well.. and although I was betting half what the crazy asian guy was at the highest spread the pit boss was behind my shoulder within the first half hour. First I had a blackjack ruled no hand. What was supposed to be 3:2 became a push. They told me it was because the player to my left was supposed to get blackjack, not me haha. Two players and dealer. I got black Ace-Ten ss. She was dealt 12.. The dealer stopped dealing, didn't deal her upcard, and said "that's not right."

    I thought for sure this was a welcoming prank and started laughing w them. When they didn't shower me with confetti and comp me a meal I told them to look at the two cards in front of me. I have blackjack and she has 10-2. Shift supervisor is sent over and tells me its a push because I wasn't supposed to get those cards. I should have left here, up a decent clip in a half hour or so. **** got even weirder. Again, purely my fault for sticking around and not giving them credit for doing stuff this audacious.

    Each time after was with the third dealer; the pit boss started rotating them faster as I was winning. She was sent in strategically. A legit con artist. First she flat out didn't pay me for a bet. Had 2 hands, one of which i split. I lost 2 hands of 3 and she didn't pay me back for the hand that I won. She did it as quick as humanly possible and I will say it was impressive. Nobody else even noticed, that or they know that it happens and don't care. The swoop of the discards, the rake of the chips, payment of every bet except my middle split.. right before throwing the discards and next round simultaneously.. this was all in what seemed like a couple seconds.

    A few minutes later I stand on a hand, even verbally stating "stand," while waving my palm horizontally. and she throws another card down, which busted me and went immediately to drawing her hand with everybody else involved and intent on seeing the finish of the round. At this point somebody else finally muttered something about everything that was happening at our table but he just hit a double bj so it's not like he was going to say **** more. For her to recognize this opportunity and to synch everything with the window of time was ****ing impressive. I tried saying something and she said "sorry, we're on the next hand."

    Again, literally a few minutes afterward.. it was my turn to act. The player before me busted and the dealer looks to me and throws a card down before I can do anything. She laughed and said "sorry, I'm tired" and started dealing out the next hand. I won that hand, but I was going to double it.. I knew the paint card was much more likely to fall than not. And it did come, but with half the bet that I wanted out there. She probably started out as some carnie, scamming little kids somewhere.

    I had had enough and they finally switched dealers. This guy was the third one in a row that smirks and comments every other minute. "Are you sure you want to stand? this guy's standing on 12." "So how much do you really know about blackjack.""So do you usually win?" They were grilling me for winning reds.

    That was actually the last of the blatant scamming/skimming. For another hour me and 4 others played with the new dealer and new deck. This wiped out what i took early on and what I brought with to lose. I want to say it was just an infrequent especially bad run of cards.. The new deck did come into question by myself and the other players once or twice because, every shoe, the count kept running very high, but we all lost most hands and with 75% penetration most of the face cards had to be cut out, every shoe. In about an hour the dealer busted maybe 3 times and almost always was dealt 20 with only two player blackjacks to follow in that time. Just a bad run IMO.. I think

    I'm kind of sick over the whole incident. I should have stopped playing immediately but I was doing well and thought why not see where it goes, I drove an hour. I can't walk out after a half hour. Besides, things were getting interesting.

    I also know that because it's native property there's pretty much no legal recourse when things like this happen. They are their own law. They can do no wrong. I willingly stayed and played anyway.

    After a decade of a successful poker grind I was prepared and excited to work my ass off for a true 1% ROI on this big bet game, hitting up casinos playing a game I enjoy, having fun. Needless to say I'm really hesitant to ever play again. I think that's exactly what they want.

    Just thought I would share my experience. Absolutely DO NOT play there unless you are intent on blowing money for a night knowing what should be a .5% initial house advantage is much closer to 5-10%. Everybody at the end of the night had been there a couple hours, no new players. And I didn't see anybody that was up. Doesn't mean there weren't any. But not from the tables that I could watch.
    Last edited by TheBullRoars; 01-15-2013 at 08:32 PM.

  2. #2


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    There is not less than a .64 house edge off the top of any game there, and the only time I went through there was not better than 70% pen even on 6 deck. Based on that, that is not a game you should play in the first place. The rest of you account, I am just not going to comment on because I wasn't there, idk but you probably still have learning to do to get a 1% edge.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    I assume you asked the pit to review the tape (for contested hands) and they refused. You did ask, didn't you? Or did you know that this casino would not honor such a request?

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    No, after 30k practice hands (many hours a week for months w a deck, not simulation) using different counts and spreads I saw the potential. I was trying to sequence and key, possibly shuffle track. But all tables here were ASM. So instead of hoping for 2% with advanced play, I'm maintaining 1+% in practice play. I was running hot when I went yesterday. Winning most of my splits and doubles, until they had the balls to do everything they did.

    I"m more than happy to answer any further questions about what happened. I realize now I was probably a little obvious but I was only spreading 1:6 in reds and only left the table a couple times in a couple hours. I guess that means I have to truly hit n run. Which will make the long run really, really long because the only time I'd be staying is when I'm down.

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    Honestly it was for only a couple red chips each hand and I was up a lot at that point. I figured if I'd contested it they'd ban me or something and I didnt think it was worth the hassle. Especially after the first blackjack issue where they told me it didn't count I really didn't trust that they were going to help me in any way. They'd act really weird towards me. I was not obxnoxious or obvious about anything. Like I said, I spread only 1:6 in reds, never talked strategy, only split 10s once, soft doubled maybe twice. The asian guy was making those plays every opportunity.

    It was even my first time playing blackjack at a casino, it was all I really told them when they asked. And they knew that because I legitimately didn't know the hand signals, buyin money down on table not hand to hand, and sometimes spaced when it was my turn. Such a small spread.. it seems they hate anybody taking any money from those tables and will do their best to ensure it never happens

    Also house edge calculator shows .59% with the rules they had yesterday. Semantics
    Last edited by TheBullRoars; 01-15-2013 at 09:42 PM.

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    By the way, the stereotyping I've read about is true. An asian guy next to me was an obvious ace sequencer and he actually hit sometimes on an ASM for the record. Not enough to make up for the times it's broken up but he was a gambler as well w weird progressions. He spread like 1:12 and played double my unit size. He got no attention at all, I honestly believe this was because he's asian.

    It was funny because the ASM uses 2 diff decks held under the table. So he had to remember sequences from the shoe before last. I'm sure I was the only person catching this, not even the sky. I didn't have the balls to try it 6D w ASM but he did. I very mildly celebrated with him when he hit BJ a couple times
    Last edited by TheBullRoars; 01-15-2013 at 09:16 PM.

  7. #7
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    God ,do I miss the Penthouse forum.
    Let me die in my sleep like my Grandfather.
    Not screaming in agony like his passengers.

  8. #8


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    Sequencer, impressive.

  9. #9


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    yeah the double deck game is around .41%.. in theory.

    there were only 4-5 tables going late and they'd act really suspicious if I left a shoe to use the restroom once or smoke a cig quick. so even wonging out just occasionally brings extra heat.

    is this kind of thing common at Indian casinos? Should I avoid all of them? I see now on some casino reports it states don't play if suspect cheating.. That's all there really are up north..

    just thought i'd share the story/info for anybody thinking about stopping on their way through or anything. i also wanted to know if this has happened to anybody else and what more i can do for cover etc. it seems just winning was the powder keg

    i didn't know they could do stuff like this and it makes me more motivated to hurt casinos profits
    Last edited by TheBullRoars; 01-15-2013 at 09:41 PM.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by mcallister3200 View Post
    Sequencer, impressive.
    He "attempted" sequencing. He got the keys right, but didn't seem to realize he wasn't hitting many on the ASM. Ironically, I, seeing this, spread 2 hands behind him and I hit more than a couple while we were seated next to each other, so who knows..

    He also didn't seem to care and was having fun. What WAS impressive was that he was remembering several sequences in a 6D game from each shoe prior, and storing the sequences for the following shoe from 2 prior from that as well. If that's not impressive cognitive ability I'm not sure what is.
    Last edited by TheBullRoars; 01-15-2013 at 09:43 PM.

  11. #11


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    Yes, you should avoid playing blackjack in Indian casinos, in my opinion.

  12. #12


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    Omg......personally I like those situations, because you can stand up and yell "FLOOR!!" as loudly as ****en possible (or "pit boss" or, if you know the dude's name, you can yell out, "Hey Christopher!!"). Keep your cool, be respectful, etc. But! Do not put up with their ****, ever. Tell them what happened, if they don't do anything, tell them to review the tapes.

    Then again, if they're doing that kinda ****, well...it's probably an Indian casino, in which case..... Perhaps the media is your best weapon? :P
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  13. #13
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    Wont comment on the other stuff but the fouled BJ should have been paid and the dealer hand continued. That's standard everywhere (but apparently not on a reservation) and good will for the casino. I had a dealer try that BUll $&@ tonight when I spread to tow hands and got stiff hands. In negative counts I usually take an extra hit and she was skipping over them without me signaling a wave off. She was also trying to whip through the deck and I told her 1) we are in no hurry, there is no need rush through hands and 2) you need to wait for me to make a decision. She tried it a couple more times so I just slowed down the game by slow rolling obvious decisions...I knew she was pissed but who cares, it's my money.

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