6 deck vs Double Deck

[Freightman]

Well, yes and no. Betting a total of 150 on two hands is not the same as betting 150 on one hand. But neither is it the same as betting 100 on one hand, for the sake of expressing a spread or a win rate. That is, unless you're playing alone, 2 x 75 is effectively a larger bet (and wins more money) than one hand of 100. I think it's about equivalent to one hand of 120 (1-12 spread) or so.

Don

Why can’t someone say “card eating effect”.

[PinkChip]

Well, yes and no. Betting a total of 150 on two hands is not the same as betting 150 on one hand. But neither is it the same as betting 100 on one hand, for the sake of expressing a spread or a win rate. That is, unless you're playing alone, 2 x 75 is effectively a larger bet (and wins more money) than one hand of 100. I think it's about equivalent to one hand of 120 (1-12 spread) or so.

Don

Hi Don, thanks for your input!
I also knew that spreading to two hands of about 70 percent each lowers RoR (due to covariance of the hands), but thought that 2 x 70 (or 75) has the same throughput and thus the same EV as one hand of 140 (or 150, in this case), whilst reducing RoR, and so I would call such a spread 1:14 (or 1:15) and never compare it with 100 dollars on one spot, but with 140 (150).

If I were to implement a 1:10 spread and maintain EV, I would make a min bet of 10 on one spot and a max bet of either 100 on one spot (probably invoking "Checks play!") or 50 on two spots each (lower variance and maybe less heat).

The rule that the effective spread is somewhat in between 1:10 and 1:15 in the above case is new to me. I always assumed that EV is only dependent on total money on the felt times advantage. Is there a formula or s.th. regarding this in BJA 3?

[ZeeBabar]

I knew that two hands of 75 is the same risk/variance as one hand of 100 but I didn’t know that the spread was measured differently. Thank you for clearing that up. One question I do have for you is as follows: Do you believe spreading from 1:10 on one spot or playing two hands of 75% of my bet for each TC would garner more heat? Furthermore, would it be beneficial to switch between the two options?

Heat varies with casino and playing conditions and there is no universal answer. There is one casino where I play 2 x $10 to 2 x $90, dropping to one hand and/or wonging out on high negative counts but I do this on weekend nights where there are lots of green chip tables open and even the high limit room is full and even then, being very aware of the pit folks. However, at the same casino in early morning shift when only 1-2 tables are open, I might just play one hand or use a heavy act with short session, quit when up $200.

Heat and tolerance vary with casino size, location, day of week, time of day, your looks, act etc.

[DSchles]

I also knew that spreading to two hands of about 70 percent each lowers RoR (due to covariance of the hands),

No, it doesn't lower ROR. You bet more money, so e.v. increases, but so does variance. Since they increase by the same percentage, ROR remains the same as for one hand of 100.

but thought that 2 x 70 (or 75) has the same throughput and thus the same EV as one hand of 140 (or 150, in this case), whilst reducing RoR,

It does have the same e.v. as one hand of 150, but it has less variance and therefore, less ROR. But you aren't comparing to one hand of 140; you're comparing to one hand of 100.

and so I would call such a spread 1:14 (or 1:15) and never compare it with 100 dollars on one spot, but with 140 (150).

Again, I'm telling you that the sim results will show that the two hands produce results similar to a spread of one hand of about 12.

The rule that the effective spread is somewhat in between 1:10 and 1:15 in the above case is new to me. I always assumed that EV is only dependent on total money on the felt times advantage. Is there a formula or s.th. regarding this in BJA 3?

You keep just quoting e.v. in a void. You can't do that. The results for optimal betting require that you take into account both e.v. AND variance. And no, there is no formula in BJA3 for this. What I'm expressing is simply the result of observation of sim results.

Don

[Counting_Is_Fun]

[QUOTE=Banker;275954]

Apples and oranges again. BTW, have you really played DD games with surrender? I'm only aware of one and it's in CA.

There are some outside CA, OK?

There are still some out "west"

[Counting_Is_Fun]

I’m sorry to keep spamming you with questions but I feel this one is pertinent. Those sims are awesome and I appreciate you running them for me. One difference between them and the conditions at the actual table is that I would generally be the only one there, it’s usually pretty empty. Is there any chance you could run the exact same sim but with heads-up play all? Lastly, I don’t use Halves, I count with CKO, a form of TKO, which is essentially Hi-Lo.

I won't run the sims for you but...if you would be playing heads up most of the time...then your hands per hour should be much higher than 100, and thus win per hour should be much higher. Even with another player I average way more than that.

[Counting_Is_Fun]

This game is genuinely double deck with 60-70% penetration (sometimes more), DAS, LS, RSA, super fast dealers. The only thing stopping me from milking this place for every last dollar is the $25 minimum. That and the play-all is the only thing holding me back. My bankroll just isn’t big enough to sustain the variance of play-all $25 minimum.

Agree with you...you just answered your own question. You don't have anywhere near the bankroll to be playing that game.

[Counting_Is_Fun]

If you message me where it is I'll make sure it's a good game.

Newbie...do not tell him where your game is lol...he just wants to go kill it lol. Refinery was making a joke to you.

[Freightman]

If I was a pit critter, I would call your spread a 1:30 spread.

Consider card eating on the effect of spread. Are you a critter?

https://youtu.be/uxv0ZNXvmqk

[Counting_Is_Fun]

But you wrote DD, LS, 75 pen, which sounded quite uncommon for DD. So all these good rules are not available for double deck? Confused.

Agree...I am confused too.
Rathernotgivemyrealname...were you banned from DD or 6D?
What were you really spreading?
You don't have the bankroll to play anything but $5 6D.
Were you still playing 6 hour sessions...that is why you were banned.
DD isn't always a trap...I see ploppies spreading 1-6 everyday.
Uggg just buy Norms software...it will save you so many questions.

[RatherNotGiveMyRealName]

Agree...I am confused too.
Rathernotgivemyrealname...were you banned from DD or 6D?
What were you really spreading?
You don't have the bankroll to play anything but $5 6D.
Were you still playing 6 hour sessions...that is why you were banned.
DD isn't always a trap...I see ploppies spreading 1-6 everyday.
Uggg just buy Norms software...it will save you so many questions.

There are two tables at this place: One six deck, one double deck. I was banned from the 6 deck spreading 1-10 but mainly flat betting so it was a surprise. My bankroll is replenishable so I have no problem playing the $10 games.

I was not playing a six hour session, this is a new place that I had only been to once previously and I was only there for about two hours. The DD might not be a trap but I’d be willing to bet you that they give you the tap quickly on the DD game as well.

I have decided to buy CVCX/CVDATA but am waiting because I haven’t decided on CV Blackjack because I don’t know if it has the strategy I use. Until then, I am happy to read and post to further my learning as that is a function of a forum.

[Freightman]

Agree...I am confused too.
Rathernotgivemyrealname...were you banned from DD or 6D?
What were you really spreading?
You don't have the bankroll to play anything but $5 6D.
Were you still playing 6 hour sessions...that is why you were banned.
DD isn't always a trap...I see ploppies spreading 1-6 everyday.
Uggg just buy Norms software...it will save you so many questions.

What were you saying about ADD?

[Counting_Is_Fun]

What were you saying about ADD?

I have no idea what you are talking about Freightman, but that's pretty normal.