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Thread: 6 deck vs Double Deck

  1. #1


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    6 deck vs Double Deck

    I’m wondering if you guys have any input on the viability of these two games and which one would be better for me to play.

    6 deck (Half the time H17, half the time S17)
    -75 to 80% pen
    -DAS
    -LS
    -10 dollar minimum

    Double Deck
    -Unknown pen (I will know tomorrow and come edit it in, it’s a hypothetical for now)
    -DAS
    -LS
    -25 dollar minimum



    I only play the former of the two and use a form of TKO with a 1-10 spread betting minimum in neutral or negative counts and ramping to $100 at a true 4. In really negative counts I leave.

    I would like to switch to double deck as it is much easier to count (irc of -4 instead of -20) and I may look more natural with a 1-5 spread instead of 1-10 or higher. My main question really is, what would the pen have to be like for me to play this game effectively and what should my bet spread/ramp look like? My main concern when it comes to switching is having a bigger minimum and maximum bet at the $25 minimum table. That alone would increase my RoR but it would be mainly heads up from my experience and the good rules/potentially good pen could compensate.
    Last edited by RatherNotGiveMyRealName; 09-21-2019 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #2


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    You didn't indicate if h17 or s17. The double deck game will outperform the 6 deck game by a wide margin assuming only 50% on DD and 80% on 6 deck. Damn, that is why I love those DD games.
    Last edited by Midwest Player; 09-21-2019 at 07:44 PM.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    You didn't indicate if h17 or s17. The double deck game will outperform the 6 deck game by a wide margin assuming only 50% on DD and 80% on 6 deck. Damn, that is why I love those DD games.
    Good point, I will go add that in now. The 6 deck is S17 and the DD is H17. Although, if we are getting technical, you can cut the advantage that S17 brings me in half because I would be playing at 6D S17 half of the time and 6D H17 the other.

    I really do want to play DD as counting a 6 deck shoe seems a bit more fatiguing to me and I like the idea of only playing with greens and spreading just 1-5 or 1-6. I did all the calculations and converted my 6D RC to TC chart to a DD version. I’ll link it here. It takes any KO running count (assuming an IRC of -4) and converts it to a Hi-Lo true count.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...D9_Ky33gy8b3-I

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by RatherNotGiveMyRealName View Post

    I would like to switch to double deck as it is much easier to count (irc of -4 instead of -20) and I may look more natural with a 1-5 spread instead of 1-10 or higher.

    My main concern when it comes to switching is having a bigger minimum and maximum bet at the $25 minimum table. That alone would increase my RoR but it would be mainly heads up from my experience and the good rules/potentially good pen could compensate.
    Two thoughts:

    1.) The 1:5 spread is smaller but on DD games I would expect more scrutiny.

    2.) Since you only multiply your min bet by 5, your max bet is 125 instead of 100 dollars, so I assume the RoR would be somewhat higher but not excessively higher (rule of humb: your total bankroll should be at least 100 max bets, so 12500 instead of 10000 dollars, in order to keep the RoR constant). But maybe this assumption underestimates the change because the behaviour is not linear.

    But these thoughts are only from reading books and the forum. I currently read the manual of CVCX but have not done own simulations yet, to get more precise answers to such questions.
    Last edited by PinkChip; 09-22-2019 at 04:21 AM.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    The double deck game will outperform the 6 deck game by a wide margin assuming only 50% on DD and 80% on 6 deck.
    Care to back that up with sims? let's assume 3 players on each table and equivalent rules, 1-6 spread on DD and 1-12 spread on shoe, and game speed.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Care to back that up with sims? let's assume 3 players on each table and equivalent rules, 1-6 spread on DD and 1-12 spread on shoe, and game speed.
    He can't. The show game's SCORE is about 50% better than the DD game.

    Don

  7. #7


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    Norealname,

    While I understand the desire to play DD over the six deck game, understand the heat with DD is several times worse than 6 deck. The majority (and this is not a guess) of people in OSN are from playing DD and moving their bets with the count.

    I am not telling you don't play it, but I am telling you to adapt an appropriate play style and bet style. Or you won't be playing at all in these stores.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Care to back that up with sims? let's assume 3 players on each table and equivalent rules, 1-6 spread on DD and 1-12 spread on shoe, and game speed.
    When I looked at sims of the mentioned games, I opened existing sims that were run with Halves which is the count I use. At the time he didn't specify if the game was H17 or S17 so I used H17 for both games. I didn't look at SCORE rather just looked at win per hour and the DD game blew the six deck game out of the park, but I did notice the DD game had higher risk of ruin.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth View Post
    Norealname,

    While I understand the desire to play DD over the six deck game, understand the heat with DD is several times worse than 6 deck. The majority (and this is not a guess) of people in OSN are from playing DD and moving their bets with the count.

    I am not telling you don't play it, but I am telling you to adapt an appropriate play style and bet style. Or you won't be playing at all in these stores.
    That’s a good point, there’s a reason why those tables are always empty. I’ve almost never seen anyone sit at them.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkChip View Post
    Two thoughts:

    1.) The 1:5 spread is smaller but on DD games I would expect more scrutiny.

    2.) Since you only multiply your min bet by 5, your max bet is 125 instead of 100 dollars, so I assume the RoR would be somewhat higher but not excessively higher (rule of humb: your total bankroll should be at least 100 max bets, so 12500 instead of 10000 dollars, in order to keep the RoR constant). But maybe this assumption underestimates the change because the behaviour is not linear.

    But these thoughts are only from reading books and the forum. I currently read the manual of CVCX but have not done own simulations yet, to get more precise answers to such questions.
    I appreciate the thoughts. My bankroll is pretty small, so I’m concerned about my max bet being higher than $100, but it is replenishable. I could spread to two hands in higher counts, making my max bet lower, but that draws attention as well. I do think the main problem is just my RoR, as this place isn’t super sweaty.

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