Extreme tilt after dealer toke bet

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 07:30 AM

Ponder this scenario:
I'm playing my normal game yesterday and been opening my spread to 1 -7 (just red chipping $10 min). I try to make a small dealer tip once during each session since my face is now known in this joint. I'm thinking I'm building goodwill doing this, but probably just burning more money with no positive gain doing this. This game I play offers a side bet. I never play this side bet because I don't know the math behind it and can safely assume it's -EV. Well the dealer has me place her toke bet on the side bet instead of the hand. Damn thing hits pays close to $80. Please keep in mind I'm down half my buy in at this point as well. Dealer pays me off the side bet and stares at me. My mind is racing here, I'm wanting to throw the dealer a $25, but quickly realize I can't do this so I gave the damn dealer the whole side bet payoff. Now I'm getting clobbered with high counts and max bets getting swept up like a dust vac picks up cookie crumbs. I'm probably the only idiot in the world who goes to a casino and wins money for the dealer but get's clobbered themselves. I will never tip again!

**RCJH** · 08-19-2019, 07:34 AM

What was the side bet?

How much was the toke?

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by RCJH

What was the side bet?

How much was the toke?

This game is called 21 + 3 with a 9-1 payoff. My toke bet is usually only 5, but I had a few white chips and the session was nearing an end and was wanting to be a nice guy so toke bet $8, she then asked me to move it on the silly side bet.

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

This game is called 21 + 3 with a 9-1 payoff. My toke bet is usually only 5, but I had a few white chips and the session was nearing an end and was wanting to be a nice guy so toke bet $8, she then asked me to move it on the silly side bet.

It actually gets worse, but didn't want to write a novel for my opening post. I pushed on a 4 unit wager that was doubled on last hand of the shoe. My girlfriend sat down as dealer was shuffling. Dealer was harping me to let her play. I hinted she's fine and I'm almost done for the day and continue talking to my girlfriend. Next thing I know she is dealing the cards and she took it upon herself to spread my last wager that was a push on two hands (how nice!). So here at the start of a shoe I have 8 units out spread between two hands and didn't realize this as I was distracted by my girlfriend yapping at me. Of course both hands lost. This was the ultimate tilt trigger after the side bet fiasco.

**BJGenius007** · 08-19-2019, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

It actually gets worse, but didn't want to write a novel for my opening post. I pushed on a 4 unit wager that was doubled on last hand of the shoe. My girlfriend sat down as dealer was shuffling. Dealer was harping me to let her play. I hinted she's fine and I'm almost done for the day and continue talking to my girlfriend. Next thing I know she is dealing the cards and she took it upon herself to spread my last wager that was a push on two hands (how nice!). So here at the start of a shoe I have 8 units out spread between two hands and didn't realize this as I was distracted by my girlfriend yapping at me. Of course both hands lost. This was the ultimate tilt trigger after the side bet fiasco.

You are not ready to play BJ professionally or even semi-professionally. You were in shock and mourning for your departing big tips and not ready for the next shoe.

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

You are not ready to play BJ professionally or even semi-professionally. You were in shock and mourning for your departing big tips and not ready for the next shoe.

No, I'm not, and that's why I'm playing a red chip game. I don't think all is lost though. I think with continued study of the game combined with some more live experience and some advice from you guys and I'll eventually get there.

**Freightman** · 08-19-2019, 07:58 AM

Tipping ir not, is a personal choice. If you do, then where you put the time us your business.I toke, and really don’t care where it goes. If the dealer wants it on the side bet, fine. If it wins big, it all goes to the dealer.

Expand the situation. You put a red on the side bet for the dealer. It wins 200-1, for 1k. Do you say to the dealer - I’ll give you a hundred, because that’s more than generous, and I’ll take the 900. To do so will make you look like an asshole. You’ve lost all the goodwill that you THINK you’ve made.

So, your options are
1. Don’t tip
2. Insist where the tip goes
3. If the dealer wants it in the side bet “join them”. Solves the scenario described.

PS
Playing a nickel game, you should calculate the effect of a 5 or 8 dollar toke on EV. It’s not pretty. Just make it a buck.

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Tipping ir not, is a personal choice. If you do, then where you put the time us your business.I toke, and really don’t care where it goes. If the dealer wants it on the side bet, fine. If it wins big, it all goes to the dealer.

Expand the situation. You put a red on the side bet for the dealer. It wins 200-1, for 1k. Do you say to the dealer - I’ll give you a hundred, because that’s more than generous, and I’ll take the 900. To do so will make you look like an asshole. You’ve lost all the goodwill that you THINK you’ve made.

So, your options are
1. Don’t tip
2. Insist where the tip goes
3. If the dealer wants it in the side bet “join them”. Solves the scenario described.

PS
Playing a nickel game, you should calculate the effect of a 5 or 8 dollar toke on EV. It’s not pretty. Just make it a buck.

These are great options. I realized in the heat of the moment I can't withhold any of the payout from the dealer that's why bit my tongue and paid it out. In the future I will never make a side bet with a dealer toke without adding some of my own action to prevent this sickening feeling. This is the crap I'm trying to learn with these nickel and dime sessions before I try to make a real run.

**stopgambling** · 08-19-2019, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

In the future I will never make a side bet with a dealer toke without adding some of my own action to prevent this sickening feeling. This is the crap I'm trying to learn with these nickel and dime sessions before I try to make a real run.

Noobish behavior , I don't know when will you get to play for serious. You brought your GF to the casino when you are already easily distracted ,tilt ? Just think about what you just did. P.S. BTW you lost $8 tipping ,not $72 You have little understanding of EV, CE , variance and the effects of tipping. Good Luck.

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

Noobish behavior , I don't know when will you get to play for serious. You brought your GF to the casino when you are already easily distracted ,tilt ? Just think about what you just did. P.S. BTW you lost $8 tipping ,not $72 You have little understanding of EV, CE , variance and the effects of tipping. Good Luck.

Noobish behavior as far tilt and variance at a Blackjack table, sure can't argue that. I never looked at it as losing more that $8 on a tip. I'm not bankrolling a serious game yet. My current blackjack playing is equivalent to traveling to a new poker room. I don't run to the $5/$10 table. I observe the local population tendencies first so when I put the real money on the line I know what I'm getting into and can adjust to capitalize. EV is nothing new to me.

**stopgambling** · 08-19-2019, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

EV is nothing new to me.

i know folks that played a decade and still don't understand the effect of variance on your game. Imagined after a 1000 hours and you are sill not ahead after expenses . it happens .

**UncleChoo** · 08-19-2019, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

i know folks that played a decade and still don't understand the effect of variance on your game. Imagined after a 1000 hours and you are sill not ahead after expenses . it happens .

I get it, I really do. Seeing something on paper and then getting a little taste ( I know only 4 hours is nothing) in real life are two different things. I 've had losing sessions, but yet to experience losing 85% of my hands for four hours straight in great shoes. You're making assumptions I'n on here saying "poor me" when I'm really not. I think some of you guys forget the beginner mindset after having decades of seasoning.

**tomf23** · 08-19-2019, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by UncleChoo

I get it, I really do. Seeing something on paper and then getting a little taste ( I know only 4 hours is nothing) in real life are two different things. I 've had losing sessions, but yet to experience losing 85% of my hands for four hours straight in great shoes. You're making assumptions I'n on here saying "poor me" when I'm really not. I think some of you guys forget the beginner mindset after having decades of seasoning.

you absolutely are saying "poor me".