Number of hands played

**DannyOcean** · 08-18-2019, 01:21 PM

Previous posted as CaptainJack.

When wonging, is it better to do it in a beginning, middle or end of a session? I have done it to begin and end a session. Results when wonging are extremely satisfying and I'm asking more so to avoid too much heat?

Do number of players or number of hands played effect outcomes? I have noticed very good results with two or three hands against the dealer. One average experience with 4 people, a bad experience with anything more than that, and extremely mixed results when playing one hand against the dealer.

I have not been able to statistically determine if this makes too much of a difference on cvcx. My thoughts would be to play two hands against just the dealer and to never play with more than 2 other people at the table.

**DSchles** · 08-18-2019, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by DannyOcean

Previous posted as CaptainJack.

When wonging, is it better to do it in a beginning, middle or end of a session? I have done it to begin and end a session. Results when wonging are extremely satisfying and I'm asking more so to avoid too much heat?

Do number of players or number of hands played effect outcomes? I have noticed very good results with two or three hands against the dealer. One average experience with 4 people, a bad experience with anything more than that, and extremely mixed results when playing one hand against the dealer.

I have not been able to statistically determine if this makes too much of a difference on cvcx. My thoughts would be to play two hands against just the dealer and to never play with more than 2 other people at the table.

Your edge varies very little as number of players at the table varies. On the other hand, and quite obviously, the number of hands you get to play, per hour, varies greatly according to number of other players, so, in general, you want to play with as few other players as possible, to get more volume per hour.

Don

**DannyOcean** · 08-18-2019, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

Your edge varies very little as number of players at the table varies. On the other hand, and quite obviously, the number of hands you get to play, per hour, varies greatly according to number of other players, so, in general, you want to play with as few other players as possible, to get more volume per hour.

Don

Thank you Don, was it just a statistic outlier for me vs the dealer being very bad on my last trip? Does it improve if I play 2 hands vs dealer? I assume no, but I do not want to assume with numbers or counting. Thank You!

Danny

**Phoebe** · 08-18-2019, 01:59 PM

With other players if you play more hands you get more volume per hour. No ?

**nighterfighter** · 08-18-2019, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Phoebe

With other players if you play more hands you get more volume per hour. No ?

No.

If you are by yourself, you get all the hands. With other players, you get half, one quarter, etc.

The same number of hands will be dealt from the shoe, but you yourself will only get a fraction of them.

By yourself you might get 60 hands per hour, for example. With other players it will drop, as the dealer has to collect and pay their bets, take their hands, etc.

**DannyOcean** · 08-18-2019, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

No.

If you are by yourself, you get all the hands. With other players, you get half, one quarter, etc.

The same number of hands will be dealt from the shoe, but you yourself will only get a fraction of them.

By yourself you might get 60 hands per hour, for example. With other players it will drop, as the dealer has to collect and pay their bets, take their hands, etc.

Is rounds per hour calculated off of the hands you actually play? So if I play two hands, I'm playing double the rate as if I'm playing one hand?

**nighterfighter** · 08-18-2019, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by DannyOcean

Is rounds per hour calculated off of the hands you actually play? So if I play two hands, I'm playing double the rate as if I'm playing one hand?

I think that first part is true, but I'm not sure if it's actually double when you play 2 hands, due to some overhead time-costs on the dealer's part. I'd let someone else confirm if HPH is determined by how many hands you actually get to partake in.

**ZeeBabar** · 08-19-2019, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

I think that first part is true, but I'm not sure if it's actually double when you play 2 hands, due to some overhead time-costs on the dealer's part. I'd let someone else confirm if HPH is determined by how many hands you actually get to partake in.

If one hand is $10, two hands of $10 is equivalent to betting $15 on a single hand.

**Phoebe** · 08-19-2019, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

If one hand is $10, two hands of $10 is equivalent to betting $15 on a single hand.

No. More precisely, it's imprecise. Are you talking about EV or variance ?

**ZeeBabar** · 08-19-2019, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Phoebe

No. More precisely, it's imprecise. Are you talking about EV or variance ?

EV

**DSchles** · 08-19-2019, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

If one hand is $10, two hands of $10 is equivalent to betting $15 on a single hand.

No, that's not true. And, of course, it depends on how many other players are at the table. If you were alone, betting one hand of $10, let's say you could play 210 hands per hour. Now, you switch to two hands of $10, but you can play only 2/3 the number of hands per hour. In the first case, your e.v. operates on $2,100 of action. In the second case, it's on $20 x 140 = $2,800 of action. Your e.v. has increased by 33.3%, not 50%.

Now, put five other people at the table with you, such that , when you play your two hands, all seven spots are used. I'll leave it as an exercise for you, or others, to now see what happens to e.v.

Don

**ZeeBabar** · 08-19-2019, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

No, that's not true. And, of course, it depends on how many other players are at the table. If you were alone, betting one hand of $10, let's say you could play 210 hands per hour. Now, you switch to two hands of $10, but you can play only 2/3 the number of hands per hour. In the first case, your e.v. operates on $2,100 of action. In the second case, it's on $20 x 140 = $2,800 of action. Your e.v. has increased by 33.3%, not 50%.

Now, put five other people at the table with you, such that , when you play your two hands, all seven spots are used. I'll leave it as an exercise for you, or others, to now see what happens to e.v.

Don

Got it. Beyond a certain point (number of players and speed of dealer) EV drops. In your example, from $20 x 70 would result in $1400 in action per hour, dropping EV....

**DSchles** · 08-19-2019, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Got it. Beyond a certain point (number of players and speed of dealer) EV drops. In your example, from $20 x 70 would result in $1400 in action per hour, dropping EV....

No, sorry, you're missing the point. The idea is not to state that, with more players at the table, your e.v. drops. First, you hourly win drops, which isn't the same thing. As I previously stated, the e.v. changes very little, if at all.

The idea is to challenge your original statement that, when switching from one hand of $10 to two hands of $10, the effect is as if you were now playing one hand of $15, which just isn't the case. After showing you what the equivalent would be if you were playing alone, I challenged you to do the math for going from one hand of $10 with five other players at the table (total of 7 hands, including the dealer's) to two hands of $10 with the same five other players (total of eight hands, including the dealer's). But, you didn't try to do it (or couldn't do it).

Do you want to see the answer, or do you want to try to work it out and understand for yourself?

Don