Any good mental game tips?

[UncleChoo]

I played like a terrible newbie wannabe counter tonight. I have a few hundred hours of training using zen under my belt. I'm solid at home, I know my indices, keep the count solid etc. Most of my training is
using Casino Verite tools. The past couple months I've started live play. I look at these as training session. It seems like when things go right for me right off the bat, I relax, settle in and can maintain control of the game (meaning no playing mistakes, holding the count, being relaxed not being obvious etc.) Today I had my first experience where it was a nightmare, probably won 1 hand out of first shoe. I then noticed myself fumbling the count, then giving up thinking " I'll start counting on next shoe", and then it got worse, after starting third shoe I blew an indice decision and then it was like I couldn't even count without being obvious. I'm so disgusted at myself. Anybody ever go through something like this early in there blackjack journey?

[ZeeBabar]

Just like most people don’t have the physical attributes to be successful at becoming a pro basketball or football player, most people don’t have the mental skills to become a professional card counter and ....in the end the same fate awaits them as that of those who drop everything to pursue a career as a pro football or basketball career.

[Purplemoon]

Hey UncleCho,

Sounds like you've been preparing well, keep up the good work and keep practising. Wave's advice is spot on! I actually printed out some mini-cards with photos of index plays which I'd run through pre-casino.... It ìs like a boxing match, take each round at a time, maybe you lose the count... don't worry, take a break and go back. The more you play in casinos the easier it becomes. And just like with boxing it's the training which pays off.

The dis-jointed thing about counting is that you may play brilliantly (perfect basic strategy, nail all the indices, great betting ramp etc) and still lose a bundle which can really piss you off (tilt) and conversely play really lax, make a bunch of mistakes invert the count (plus 10 instead of minus 10), etc and still come out with a fist full of dollars. It's a highly volatile game and it is the training and the books which will help you keep you mentally cool when you are surrounded by non-professional gamblers and crazy positive and negative variance.

Good luck....

[UncleChoo]

The first time I played with the Red 7 count, I lost my entire trip roll on the first shoe I played. I had probably 100 hours of practice under my belt and knew how to keep the count and use index plays. I had not yet internalized the importance of "Wonging" out at Optimal Departure Points, or Risk of Ruin. Shortly afterwards I heard an interview on Gambling With an Edge and the guest said we learn more from our failures than our successes. Consequently, I started looking for ways to increase my chances of having winning sessions. I eventually switched to REKO 6 Deck Full and purchased CVCX and started to understand the importance of Wonging and ROR.

With CVCX I could run sims to answer my own questions...hence my adoption of ODPs and a much larger (3× original) trip roll. I have to say that I am now grateful for the first time disaster because it pushed me to learn more and in the long run lose less. With CVCX I can now answer my own questions based on solid statistics....which builds confidence and ability. Don't get discouraged...look at this as an opportunity for improvement and develop strategies to perform better.

For example, I developed a self "check out" SOP I now use before every entrance to a casino. For example, 100% accurate 6 deck count down in less than 3 minutes and 100% accurate deck estimation drills using Norm's Android apps on my cell, with a 100% accurate flashcard run of indexes, stop counts, and bet ramps. This checkout both builds confidence and ensures I am ready to play that day. You can develop something similar for your use...it's no different than pre-game routines used by professional atheletes...but you do not have to be a professional to benefit from them.

This is great advice. I honestly haven't been doing any warm up routines before battle. Going to work out one though before next time.

Just like most people don’t have the physical attributes to be successful at becoming a pro basketball or football player, most people don’t have the mental skills to become a professional card counter and ....in the end the same fate awaits them as that of those who drop everything to pursue a career as a pro football or basketball career.

Zee, this is a valid point, but I don't think not having the mental attributes is my problem. I'm very green in live play. I think this session will be a good learning opportunity. Halfway through first shoe, I had +4 and split 9's 3X against dealer 5. Caught a deuce on two splits and then doubled. I wasn't prepared for the mental jolt of watching 5 max bets get swept in one round. The rest of the session was history after that. I'll be more mentally prepared next time.

Hey UncleCho,

Sounds like you've been preparing well, keep up the good work and keep practising. Wave's advice is spot on! I actually printed out some mini-cards with photos of index plays which I'd run through pre-casino.... It ìs like a boxing match, take each round at a time, maybe you lose the count... don't worry, take a break and go back. The more you play in casinos the easier it becomes. And just like with boxing it's the training which pays off.

The dis-jointed thing about counting is that you may play brilliantly (perfect basic strategy, nail all the indices, great betting ramp etc) and still lose a bundle which can really piss you off (tilt) and conversely play really lax, make a bunch of mistakes invert the count (plus 10 instead of minus 10), etc and still come out with a fist full of dollars. It's a highly volatile game and it is the training and the books which will help you keep you mentally cool when you are surrounded by non-professional gamblers and crazy positive and negative variance.

Good luck....

You're spot on about tilt. This is exactly what happened to me.

[RTR2021]

Halfway through first shoe, I had +4 and split 9's 3X against dealer 5. Caught a deuce on two splits and then doubled. I wasn't prepared for the mental jolt of watching 5 max bets get swept in one round. The rest of the session was history after that. I'll be more mentally prepared next time.



You're spot on about tilt. This is exactly what happened to me.

You're doing fine. It's part of the learning process. I lost about 8 max bets this past weekend in one shoe. I got angry. But it was a different kind of angry because I knew I hadn't made a mistake. It's difficult to articulate...

Before, when I wasn't confident that my big losses were not the result of my own doing, my anger was self directed, which is an awful feeling. But when you know you've done your best, were accurate, but lost, you still feel good, just pissed, almost vengeful - ready to go take it back. This shit is war.

So while you cannot eliminate the occasional big losses, you can eliminate those that may be the result of mistakes and the dejection that accompanies them.

As an aside, while you want to be composed during bad streaks, don't be stoic. Be pissed. It's natural. Any real gambler would be. It's great advertising to casino staff. Let them know you've lost your ass. It serves as an offset, if you will, to a subsequent big win.

[UncleChoo]

You're doing fine. It's part of the learning process. I lost about 8 max bets this past weekend in one shoe. I got angry. But it was a different kind of angry because I knew I hadn't made a mistake. It's difficult to articulate...

Before, when I wasn't confident that my big losses were not the result of my own doing, my anger was self directed, which is an awful feeling. But when you know you've done your best, were accurate, but lost, you still feel good, just pissed, almost vengeful - ready to go take it back. This shit is war.

So while you cannot eliminate the occasional big losses, you can eliminate those that may be the result of mistakes and the dejection that accompanies them.

As an aside, while you want to be composed during bad streaks, don't be stoic. Be pissed. It's natural. Any real gambler would be. It's great advertising to casino staff. Let them know you've lost your ass. It serves as an offset, if you will, to a subsequent big win.

When sparring with the house, losing a few max bets in one round is equivalent to a boxer walking into a hard right hook and getting pinned on the ropes. Training with software is great, but it can never prepare you for the true mental battle when engaged in a match. If I went to the casino and always caught positive variance for the first several months of live play, it would probably do more harm than good long term, because I would be moving up in stakes and not have any experience dealing with all aspects of the game.

[Freightman]

You're doing fine. It's part of the learning process. I lost about 8 max bets this past weekend in one shoe. I got angry.

Only 8 max bets lost in one shoe? I recall about 5 years ago losing about 35 max bets in 1 shoe. Included losing 2-2x350 bets, 2 or 3 hands apart, all hands with hard 20, losing to dealer multi card 21’s. Funny thing, at the end of the night, I was up about 500 - quite the comeback. Shit happens.

[UncleChoo]

Only 8 max bets lost in one shoe? I recall about 5 years ago losing about 35 max bets in 1 shoe. Included losing 2-2x350 bets, 2 or 3 hands apart, all hands with hard 20, losing to dealer multi card 21’s. Funny thing, at the end of the night, I was up about 500 - quite the comeback. Shit happens.

This is scary to read. I'm extremely short rolled ( about 120 max bets ). Like mentioned before, I'm only training now. Not even spreading real wide. I figure if can play a solid several months at low stakes with a narrow spread, it will reduce BR volatility obviously at the cost of profits.

[Freightman]

This is scary to read. I'm extremely short rolled ( about 120 max bets ). Like mentioned before, I'm only training now. Not even spreading real wide. I figure if can play a solid several months at low stakes with a narrow spread, it will reduce BR volatility obviously at the cost of profits.

Don’t worry about killing it. Settle for lower EV, lower variance while seasoning yourself. Net result is slower bankroll growth th, but one that lets you sleep nights. The scenario I described was off a massive roll, and I didn’t sweat it. Even now, my roll is pretty strong, and I dont worry about using it for extras.

Case in point - I recently had to deal with a dire emergency. My beloved 17 year old propane bbq died mid steak. I was beside myself with grief. My wife and I recently decided to stay in our home, versus moving to a bungalow scenario, and thus decided to go with gas. To insert the gas line hitting the deck at its cheapest point, would have the line coming out by the dryer vent. I wanted the line to come out where the bbq was already situated, with a city inspection, and thus, I lied to my wife about the cost. Further, I sold her on the fact that when her stove needed replacing, that the new gas line would conveniently go under the range, making the purchase of a gas range easy to install.

Fate intervened. Just 1 month after the gas line was installed, a computer something or other died on the range which was a 500 repair. Wouldn’t you know it - the wife and her friend went shopping for gas ranges. It was delivered this past Friday - the gasfitters are coming Tuesday, and something else to keep it to code has to be made.

Out of nowhere, about $4500 for the BbQ and stove. I’ve been hoisted on my own petard, and I’ve directed the hit to my bankroll.

[Stealth]

So many new counters think that learning to count and then using the CV products to practice make you "ready for prime time". I contend that only makes you ready for certification by someone in a structured environment much like the MIT team did. Then you can get a sense of what the real world is like instead of that fantasy world of a computer doing exactly the same thing over and over.

Do not misunderstand, I am a huge fan of the CV products to get you ready to be certified but don't fool yourself thinking a good Casino Verite player is ready for the real time. Casino Verite is also good for the experienced player to keep his skill sharp.

[Frank Galvin]

So many new counters think that learning to count and then using the CV products to practice make you "ready for prime time". I contend that only makes you ready for certification by someone in a structured environment much like the MIT team did. Then you can get a sense of what the real world is like instead of that fantasy world of a computer doing exactly the same thing over and over.

Do not misunderstand, I am a huge fan of the CV products to get you ready to be certified but don't fool yourself thinking a good Casino Verite player is ready for the real time. Casino Verite is also good for the experienced player to keep his skill sharp.

Amen, or Omen as my tribes say!

I finally got around to purchasing the rest of Norm’s software that I intended to buy when I first started down this blackjack rabbit hole.

[UncleChoo]

So many new counters think that learning to count and then using the CV products to practice make you "ready for prime time". I contend that only makes you ready for certification by someone in a structured environment much like the MIT team did. Then you can get a sense of what the real world is like instead of that fantasy world of a computer doing exactly the same thing over and over.

Do not misunderstand, I am a huge fan of the CV products to get you ready to be certified but don't fool yourself thinking a good Casino Verite player is ready for the real time. Casino Verite is also good for the experienced player to keep his skill sharp.

This is probably true, but doesn't pertain to me. I went in knowing damn well I'm not ready for prime time. That's why I'm currently just looking at live play as training. I'm red chipping and spreading narrow. I know this isn't a winning strategy, but it will also give me longevity and allow me to properly train getting several live sessions under me while keeping bankroll volatility to a min. I just try to log 8 -10 hours of live play a week spread out through a couple different places. I examine each session and recall bad plays after and try to recall if I was smooth with ramping up and down. I would rather make mistakes with $60 max bets rather than $200 max bets. I under no illusion I'm an expert, but I take the game seriously and train hard. I'm on this forum to try and learn what I can from you guys, not act like a wannabe know it all. By lurking and reading old threads there are about 5 or 6 posters that really helped my game.

[Freightman]

This is probably true, but doesn't pertain to me. I went in knowing damn well I'm not ready for prime time. That's why I'm currently just looking at live play as training. I'm red chipping and spreading narrow. I know this isn't a winning strategy, but it will also give me longevity and allow me to properly train getting several live sessions under me while keeping bankroll volatility to a min. I just try to log 8 -10 hours of live play a week spread out through a couple different places. I examine each session and recall bad plays after and try to recall if I was smooth with ramping up and down. I would rather make mistakes with $60 max bets rather than $200 max bets. I under no illusion I'm an expert, but I take the game seriously and train hard. I'm on this forum to try and learn what I can from you guys, not act like a wannabe know it all.

Though others may disagree, I think play, either flat betting or low spread, is a good way to learn, and later evaluate, under actual conditions. As long as the individual is aware that that this is (interim) losing strategy - losses which may be construed as a tuition expense.