At what point do you cash out?

[ferenc11]

This is your fundamental misunderstanding: there is no "blackjack" community. There IS an AP community.

My bad...you're right. I was being too idealistic.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

[refinery]

My bad...you're right. I was being too idealistic.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

Not idealistic. OP cares about blackjack. No one here cares about blackjack unless it has an advantage. Hence, AP community.

[ferenc11]

Not idealistic. OP cares about blackjack. No one here cares about blackjack unless it has an advantage. Hence, AP community.

I was too idealistic to think that there was any kind of community here...
By the way I don't know what kind of game you play but I've never heard of a game called "advantage".
And I play BJ with advantage.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

[Philster]

you answer does not take into account the fact that the OP described himself as a recreational gambleryou are suggesting that there can be no entertainment value from for example playing BJ with basic strategy and ceding only a small edge to the housenot everybody who plays BJ with a negative expectation is destroying themselvesthe vast majority, probably around 98% of all gamblers, do not get seriously hurt financially by the small losses they takeyes, he's more likely than not to end up negative so what? if he's enjoyed himself as millions dopeople who love scuba diving end up negative in their financials.should they stop scuba diving?there's a great irony in APs looking down on or ridiculing those who don't play with an edge although I'm not saying that was done in this threadeven though it wasn't done in this thread it's done fairly oftensometimes I even wonder if APs see the ironythe irony is this:casinos are not going to deal beatable BJ games if only skilled APs show up at their tablesmaybe the recreational gamblers should be greatly appreciated by APs

the best thing for the OP to do would be to leave this forum and try to find somewhere he can get answers to his questions without having people address him in a condescending manner

Thanks Drunk. I must say I was slightly taken aback at the palpable (sarcastic and blunt) tone of some of the other replies , but I suppose I asked a question on a public forum, so hey ho. As you suggest, I agree I'm better off posting this question in a general travellers forum such as the T ri p Advisor LV forum to get some ideas from more recreational gamblers who are in it for the enjoyment and table atmosphere.

Philster, since you are trying to be realistic in attempting to find out what a good gain is, you should also ask yourself what you consider is a good loss. No one asked you these questions can you afford to take some defeats in accordance with your betting patterns? Speaking of which do you vary your bet sizes? If you do why? Do you believe in betting trends? If you do, you got this idea right out of your head fast.

Bosox, one of my rules is not to gamble more than I can afford to lose, not to chase losses etc. I only play about once or twice a month, and obviously winning AND losses are a part of gambling. Starting with 100 and getting up to, say 140 sounds like a good time to cash out and put the gain aside and still play with the 100 later on if one wishes to, but that is subjective. To answer your question, I normally start at mins of 5, but I do sometimes bet 10, and even sometimes 15 or 20, depending on how the game is going. I want to be able to play as many hands as possible and be able to split and DAS. But I’d say an hour or so is about much time as I’d want to spend at a BJ table, anyway. I sometimes play online for free and it is interesting how you can start with a 100 and get to 160, 170 or even more. Obv there are losses too.

[Philster]

Ok, Ferenc11, thx : - )

[21forme]

Philster - Here's reality:

You are playing a losing game. If you enjoy playing, so be it. If you play once in your life and quit while you are up, you will be a lifetime winner. However, the math of the game gives the casino the advantage, which means the longer you play, the more likely your results will approach theoretical, and you will lose. Short term, anything can happen. Long story, short, play until you've had enough. If you are losing and you chase it to garner a win, you are getting closer to long term and will still be a loser.

While some people here are being very blunt, reality is reality. You can't win long term and it doesn't matter when you stop a "session" if you're going to play again in the future. There are no secret winning strategies (other than card counting, but those aren't secret) and no progressions or betting patterns predicated on the results of the previous hand. A negative expectation game is still a negative expectation game.

I wonder if we can stretch this out to 900 posts?

[Philster]

Philster - Here's reality:You are playing a losing game. If you enjoy playing, so be it. If you play once in your life and quit while you are up, you will be a lifetime winner. However, the math of the game gives the casino the advantage, which means the longer you play, the more likely your results will approach theoretical, and you will lose. Short term, anything can happen. Long story, short, play until you've had enough. If you are losing and you chase it to garner a win, you are getting closer to long term and will still be a loser.While some people here are being very blunt, reality is reality. You can't win long term and it doesn't matter when you stop a "session" if you're going to play again in the future. There are no secret winning strategies (other than card counting, but those aren't secret) and no progressions or betting patterns predicated on the results of the previous hand. A negative expectation game is still a negative expectation game.I wonder if we can stretch this out to 900 posts?

21forme,That's fine; I'm not disputing your logic or analysis at all. Of course, long term, the math will play out in the casino's favour. After all, those huge casino 'palaces' weren't built from and don't operate from charity. I think, however, many responses are misinterpreting the question I asked, into another question altogether, which seems to be: "Can I beat the casinos at BJ using only BS in the long term?", but that's not the question I asked at all! I was asking about what would be perceived as reasonable gain for an individual session. (Very subjective, I know). Ah well.Thanks for your response, anyway.

[BankerCA]

I was asking about what would be perceived as reasonable gain for an individual session. (Very subjective, I know).

So yes, obviously a very subjective answer. However, it would be my guess that if a poll was taken of Non-AP types, I would be willing to speculate if you were to take a poll and ask this question the overwhelming majority would say when "You double your money." I think this is the point where a Non-AP would say they feel "Satisfied".

An Example:
I would say this would be similar to a sports bet that pays even money (minus the vig). Most would say thats a "reasonable gain".
On the other side if you were to bet on a heavy favorite say in boxing at -900, the $10 that you win per $100 most would say "not reasonable".

Another part of this answer would come down to discipline. If you put your "reasonable gain" at $25, but don't put a stop loss when your in the negative for that session your risk/reward becomes extremely unbalanced. Just as one might say stop with a reasonable gain, they will also need to stop with a "reasonable loss". Otherwise you will experience very high "highs" and very low "lows". This will give you more of a balance.

Most Non-AP's will take a certain amount say $200 and they will literally play until every single dollar is gone. They will never be satisfied. A reasonable Non-AP that is playing for entertainment value will usually play what they can afford/stomach.

But ultimately only you can decide what is a "reasonable gain".

[Philster]

So yes, obviously a very subjective answer. However, it would be my guess that if a poll was taken of Non-AP types, I would be willing to speculate if you were to take a poll and ask this question the overwhelming majority would say when "You double your money." I think this is the point where a Non-AP would say they feel "Satisfied".

Now we're talking! I would think so too. For the casual gambler playing strictly BS, I'd too say that doubling from 200 to 400 is an fab result. In my mind, still staying at the table would be being "greedy". Hell, some would even saying making 100 or even 80 gain is a good result on a 200 initial outlay. Obviously, it can go the other way too, so your having the discipline to stick to a stop-loss limit and living to fight another day, as you advise, is sound. For me as far as LV is concerned, if I can first of all have fun and enjoy myself while making enough at BJ to pay for my food and drink and other petty expenses while I'm there, that works nicely for me. Anything over that, I'd just keep and not 're-gamble'.

[Buckster]

It seems to me that this thread is pretty much become:

"How much money should a player expect to win while playing a losing game?"

Wouldn't this thread be a wonderful addition to The Disadvantage Forum?

[refinery]

21forme,That's fine; I'm not disputing your logic or analysis at all. Of course, long term, the math will play out in the casino's favour. After all, those huge casino 'palaces' weren't built from and don't operate from charity. I think, however, many responses are misinterpreting the question I asked, into another question altogether, which seems to be: "Can I beat the casinos at BJ using only BS in the long term?", but that's not the question I asked at all! I was asking about what would be perceived as reasonable gain for an individual session. (Very subjective, I know). Ah well.Thanks for your response, anyway.

There is no "reasonable gain" when playing a negative expectation game. Period.

[BankerCA]

There is no "reasonable gain" when playing a negative expectation game. Period.

This could be debated forever...

The Lottery is a negative expectation game. If I win back more than I spent on a ticket, this would generally be considered a "reasonable gain".
On the other hand is this considered a "reasonable risk"? Statistically the answer is no. Some would argue and say yes since they had the opportunity to win life changing money.

Since "Reason" is ultimately a SUBJECTIVE term, the OBJECTIVE nature of mathematics is very difficult to apply here.

[dharmaprija]

Since you don't have an edge in the game, I think you should leave as soon as possible. If it were I, I'd walk away preemptively and not play at all.

I concur. GAME SELECTION AND PENETRATION...make it your Mantra