Can anyone explain this to me?

[Three]

RCJH, I went back and read your post since there were several things that didn’t sound right. This sentence in particular isn’t correct. This is a common misconception with newbees...that knowing more index numbers gets you a lot. Please go back and read the chapter on the Illustrious 18 in BJA3. It’s a chapter I’ve read several times. The importance of this finding cannot be overstated.

DS, it helps to do some research to confirm what you think you read. Using the CVCX tool in the BJ resources toolbar:

Hilo 6 deck/1 cut off S17, DAS, LS play-all $100K BR:

Hilo I18/F4 16 to 1 optimal spread:
EV $568.13/100 rounds, RoR 13.5%, n0 17592

Hilo full 14 to 1 optimal spread:
EV $591.64/100 rounds, RoR 13.2%, n0 16750


For Hilo the 14:1 optimal spread with full indices outperforms the 16:1 I18/F4 for EV even with giving up some potential EV gain to a lower RoR.

Many have gotten misconceptions about the I18/F4 being all you need from Don's book. Don just meant to show you the most important indices to start the index learning process with. Not where to end learning indices. If anyone got the idea that the I18/F4 is the ending point for indices from Don's book, they didn't understand what they read no matter how many times they read it. Don has stated this on this site fairly recently. Unfortunately some have read too much into what Don wrote on the I18/F4 that simply isn't there.

[refinery]

You mean they read what Don wrote.

[Dbs6582]

DS, it helps to do some research to confirm what you think you read. Using the CVCX tool in the BJ resources toolbar:

Hilo 6 deck/1 cut off S17, DAS, LS play-all $100K BR:

Hilo I18/F4 16 to 1 optimal spread:
EV $568.13/100 rounds, RoR 13.5%, n0 17592

Hilo full 14 to 1 optimal spread:
EV $591.64/100 rounds, RoR 13.2%, n0 16750


For Hilo the 14:1 optimal spread with full indices outperforms the 16:1 I18/F4 for EV even with giving up some potential EV gain to a lower RoR.

Many have gotten misconceptions about the I18/F4 being all you need from Don's book. Don just meant to show you the most important indices to start the index learning process with. Not where to end learning indices. If anyone got the idea that the I18/F4 is the ending point for indices from Don's book, they didn't understand what they read no matter how many times they read it. Don has stated this on this site fairly recently. Unfortunately some have read too much into what Don wrote on the I18/F4 that simply isn't there.

Okay Three, once again you win the technical argument but lose the practical one. Do you really think a 14:1 spread will look any different to the pit than a 16:1? Both will get you kicked out if they think you’re counting.

The point RCJH was trying to make is learning more indices than the I18 will allow someone to spread less and thus give them more cover...and by implication more longevity.

I stand by my original point. The amount you get from knowing more indices than the I18 doesn’t get you enough to impact your bet spread for cover purposes. You’re better off using this extra EV as EV, and not trying to trade it off for bet spread. Bet spread will always be the main way we make money...and it’s also the main way casinos know we’re counting. It’s that simple. Going from 1:16 to 1:14 will have no impact on our longevity at a casino.

I’ll also add that the BJA group does not teach a lot of indices. They have a YouTube video on this and I think I remember Don commmented on it. They have a couple more than the I18. All these other indices these two counters learned were probably learned on their own. I know about 75 indices myself but I don’t use most of them since the plays don’t come up very often.

One last comment, where did you read in my post that the I18 is “all you need from Don’s book”? I didn’t say any such thing. There is a lot of good information in his book. This book is about much more than the I18.

[BetWise21]

DS, it helps to do some research to confirm what you think you read. Using the CVCX tool in the BJ resources toolbar:

Hilo 6 deck/1 cut off S17, DAS, LS play-all $100K BR:

Hilo I18/F4 16 to 1 optimal spread:
EV $568.13/100 rounds, RoR 13.5%, n0 17592

Hilo full 14 to 1 optimal spread:
EV $591.64/100 rounds, RoR 13.2%, n0 16750

Are these play-all sims ?

[Freightman]

Be ever so wary of Mr. Contrary.

[Three]

Are these play-all sims ?

Try reading the post. There aren't that many words.

[BetWise21]

Try reading the post. There aren't that many words.

Sorry, I am at work and just kinda skimming over the information, my bad.

Try reading this it's only one finger.

I am certain you see it often !

[Three]

Sorry. I assumed that was DS asking. The CVCX tool in the resources bar is for paying members only and it only does play-all sims. Hilo is weak in negative counts for playing. So wonging some should help even things out a bit.

[BetWise21]

That's curious I am a CVCX , CVdata, CVBJ owner and CVBJ iPad an iPhone owner. I though I used to be able to use CVCX on here even though I'm not a forum subscriber. When I saw your post I went to resources and was going to access CVCX and see if it would run the same sims and check the results for wonging and saw there was no CVCX tab for me. Maybe I can use it online on Qfit, maybe that is what I am remembering.

[Dbs6582]

Sorry. I assumed that was DS asking.

Three, I can see how you could make this mistake. Dbs6582 and BetWise21 are so close to being the same, it’s a mistake anybody could have made. Lol

That brings up a bigger point. You respond to my posts so quickly (usually saying almost the same thing I said) that I can tell you haven’t read them. Next time when you respond to one of my posts slow down and read it, and then maybe reread it a second time, so you can understand it. This might avoid you just saying the same thing another way.

[BetWise21]

I have heard that the returns on indexes beyond I18 and Fab4 are pretty small, and if you wong out you really don't need to know the negative indexes, but I have come to think that learning more indexes even though you might not use them so much and the return is very small, the real benefit is a greater understanding of the game.

[Three]

I have heard that the returns on indexes beyond I18 and Fab4 are pretty small, and if you wong out you really don't need to know the negative indexes, but I have come to think that learning more indexes even though you might not use them so much and the return is very small, the real benefit is a greater understanding of the game.

You said you have the simulators. Don't take what other people say as gospel. Run the sims yourself for your system and decide for yourself whether it is worth it or not. I don't see many people going into their bosses office and saying they want a payout. You are your boss when it comes to AP. Do you want a pay cut because someone said taking a couple minutes to learning some more indices isn't worth it?

[ZeeBabar]

Do you want a pay cut because someone said taking a couple minutes to learning some more indices isn't worth it?[/QUOTE]

I wonder who suggested that.