Hi opt 2 with ACE side count for double deck / hi-lo for a shoe game

[First Normal Form]

Refer to Griffin TOB.
See Michael Hall treatise for relative impact of 7s applied to HO1 here -
http://mastertwentyone.com/archive/hi_opt.txt

Both are referring to playing strategy improvements for non-ace reckoned counts - meaning that if aces are counted as zero, you'd do better deciding strategy by bivaluate adjustment of the 7s than bivaluate adjustment of the Aces. But the Ace's improvement of BC on a non-ace reckoned count, or the PE and IC improvement for an ace-reckoned count, trumps any little gain the 7 would bring to PE instead. That's why we've had decades of debates and usage of ace side counts, not 7 side counts. I've never seen anyone claim that counting 7s instead of Aces is an overall gain. Possibly this could be true in a great SD game with small betting variation, but not in general.

[zengrifter]

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[chang04133]

I already memorized full index for hi-lo (up/down TC 10). so it will be fine. But, i strongly think hi opt 2 with ace side count will yield about 20% more EV.

[zengrifter]

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[zengrifter]

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[chang04133]

Okay, yes. But it is NOT recommended to master different counts for different games ...
... therefore, commit your all to HiLo, or master a 'middle ground' system like ZEN or Mentor or RPC, for both.
... if you really have the mental acuity to master two different systems (without lying to yourself), there is still so much more you can do with just ONE system.
... also, if you really can master H02 with secondary count A/-2 vs 2-5/+1, then just use it for the shoes too, as Tthree would recommend.
... however, if your H02 only uses Ace-density estimate per 1/4D, you will only work harder to garner the same real-world gain that the easier ZEN or Mentor or RPC can achieve without ASC.*
* See Snyder on side-counting -
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/sdcnt.htm

Thanks for the info.
As you know, fluctuation of True count in DD games occurs more frequent than in Shoe games. Also, its not that hard to lose track of Ace side-counting, since only 8 Aces are in the deck.
True, that using Zen count will be at more ease, but I do not find any difficulty using hi-opt 2 with Ace side-count in DD games (not in the shoe games, though, since too many Aces are there and its very possible me losing track)

[zengrifter]

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[ZenKinG]

I agree with zg, pick one count, because using two systems it will be troubling remembering indexes for each count, you say you know full indices for hi lo, are you also gonna try to memorize full indices for hi opt? then what? I say you just choose wong halves for both pitch and shoe games and call it a day, check the sims, halves is the best overall count for both pitch and shoe, its number 1 in shoes and top 3 in pitch with only hi opt and omega II slightly edging it cause of their side count of aces.

[chang04133]

Guys. How about hi opt ll with Ace side-count for the 2 deck game and no ace side count for 6 deck games?

[mofungoo]

You would lose betting accuracy which is of paramount importance in shoe games.

[chang04133]

But still, hi-opt ll will yield slightly better EV than hi-lo, and my main concentration is playing DD for a short session and then leave. The chance of me playing a shoe game is when there is no availability for DD games.
And that I am a Korean (looks very similar to Chinese), and that the card counting knowledge in Asia is very little spread, I have more tolerance in Casino environment.

[zengrifter]

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[chang04133]

I have to search for the good 2d games.
But I am considering the rule should be about H17 / DAS/ NS/ RESPLIT ACE 4 TIMES/ AND ABOUT 66~ PENETRATION.
Considering i am going to play 50 or higher, the rule will be at least better than this, but the question is how deep penetration will be.