Dealer Error Question

**SiMi** · 11-19-2013, 08:21 AM

Hi,
I was playing 1st base with 1 other player at the table. Mid-way through shoe with +2TC, Dealer deals me a BJ and Player #2 gets a hard 11 against Dealer's 8 up card.
Dealer pays me off.
Player #2 Doubles Down on a sizable bet and gets a 5 for a hard 16 total.
Dealer reveals his down card and it's another 8. His total is 16 but he says, out loud, "15" and hits it with an Ace.
Now, he has hard 17 but he says, "16" and starts to draw another card.
I'm thinking, "This is wrong!" but I don't say anything because it's happening fast, it might help Player #2 and I'm not really affected, or so I think.
Just then, Dealer's boss, who just HAPPENED to be looking at this very moment, shouts, "No" and begins to move into the table area.
The Dealer ignores the boss and flips the hit card to reveal a King and says, "Dealer Bust."
The boss grabs the King and quickly puts it in the discard tray and says, "The Dealer can't hit a hard 17. Finish the hand at 17."
Player #2 is pissed because she just went from winning a large DD bet to losing it. So, she starts questioning things.
I'm thinking, "That 10 should have been mine." I decided NOT to object because it just seemed too advanced. I had just gotten a BJ on a decent-sized bet and the gal next to me was the one who arguably got hosed. I use a lot of cover here for a good reason and didn't want to appear to be sharp.
The boss would not back down and Player #2 let it go and kept playing.
Two questions:
1) Do you think the boss was correct to do that?
2) Should I have raised the issue about my card getting burned?

Thanks for any thoughts!

**mofungoo** · 11-19-2013, 08:42 AM

The boss made the right call and you were correct not to say anything.

**SiMi** · 11-19-2013, 08:54 AM

MFG
Thanks!

**moo321** · 11-19-2013, 01:20 PM

I would've fought for the king. The boss is probably correct (you can and see if there's a law on the books), but I would've thrown a minor fit for a 10% advantage on the next hand.

**njrich** · 11-19-2013, 02:38 PM

You can ask a question without looking sharp in this situation.
You also have the right to question anything you don't understand.
I would have just said wait a minute since that was a dealer error shouldn't that be my next card?
But do not make a big issue out of it.

**SiMi** · 11-19-2013, 02:47 PM

moo man
Thanks for the input! That was my first reaction, too, but then I hesitated. One issue that I had no idea how to resolve was:

If I get the King, how much can I bet?

Knowing that I'm getting a 10 on my first card is huge and I would want to bet my max bet but I had no idea what kind of debate I was going to get from the boss since he had made such a stink and already argued with a player.
If you or anyone else has had this happen AND YOU GOT THE CARD IN QUESTION (it could have been an Ace!!), what will the boss do about the bet and what would you shoot for?
Anyway, thanks for the input!
(I started playing/counting in SD games years ago and I just didn't see the errors I see these days in shoe games...)

RS · 11-19-2013, 03:26 PM

You could ask "Wouldn't that king have been mine the next round?". If you're not increasing or changing the amount of your bet from the previous hand, and if he's a good guy, you could definitely get that King. But if you ask to get the king and he sees you just tripled your bet.....good luck.

**SiMi** · 11-19-2013, 03:34 PM

nj rich
Thanks for the feedback. Now that this has happened to me and I've read these comments, I think I could do as you say and still keep my persona intact.

**SiMi** · 11-19-2013, 03:41 PM

RS
Yes, I think that would work. I had just left my BJ payoff out there the entire time because that is my habit when I get a BJ; I don't start raking in the chips, I just leave the mess out there while the other hands are played. My reasoning is that it's easier to keep an accurate count if you're not playing with your chips right after a BJ payoff.

Then, after play is done, you know the final count and it looks natural to just leave it all out there for the next bet (if the count warrants) or just rake back the bonus if it's the same or rake plus a little if you need to reduce, etc...
I maybe could have just left the chips on the table and asked for the king and then left the bet alone if he gave it to me. That would have been great since it would be a big increase! But he might not have liked that.
All these comments are helping me quite a bit. So, thanks to everyone for the help!

**Three** · 11-20-2013, 03:40 PM

You should always know the laws or regulations for handling misdeals in your jurisdiction. They have to follow these procedures but often offer an even better offer for the player. Some floor people think they can do anything. They are wrong. Whenever I say something like there are regulations you must follow it is not an arbitrary decision they either assume I know what I am talking about or ask the table games manager or pit boss. Even if I am wrong they usually want to avoid the appearance that they are not operating as required. In the jurisdictions I play the card is burned because it was already dealt to the dealer and can't be then dealt to anyone else. Often you can get a more favorable decision from the suits. I had one say I can't give you the card but after you get your next hand you can pull your bet back if you don't like your hand. He offered that to the entire table to look like they were being generous. They were. If you research misdeal procedures you will find casinos are usually more generous than required. Just make sure they don't short you when it comes to following regulations.

**biggg** · 11-20-2013, 03:52 PM

Here's a question...with next card info that I am getting an ace or ten I am going to bet table max which will be 500 or 1k depending on store...how much heat will this draw? Anyone have experience doing this?

**Jentho** · 11-20-2013, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

You should always know the laws or regulations for handling misdeals in your jurisdiction. They have to follow these procedures but often offer an even better offer for the player. Some floor people think they can do anything. They are wrong. Whenever I say something like there are regulations you must follow it is not an arbitrary decision they either assume I know what I am talking about or ask the table games manager or pit boss. Even if I am wrong they usually want to avoid the appearance that they are not operating as required. In the jurisdictions I play the card is burned because it was already dealt to the dealer and can't be then dealt to anyone else. Often you can get a more favorable decision from the suits. I had one say I can't give you the card but after you get your next hand you can pull your bet back if you don't like your hand. He offered that to the entire table to look like they were being generous. They were. If you research misdeal procedures you will find casinos are usually more generous than required. Just make sure they don't short you when it comes to following regulations.

If they offer you that then you're next question should be what is the table max?

**moo321** · 11-22-2013, 09:35 AM

If the next card is a ten or an ace, and only YOU know it, I might go with a huge bet. Maybe don't buy in, but go all-in with your chips on the table. I've done this a number of times.

If the dealer knows, you can go up some. But consider not going table max. It makes you look like a shot taker, and they may call the floor. Be especially careful about crossing the "checks play" threshold.

If the suits know, I wouldn't do much, but I'd be happy with getting the card. Jumping your bet a lot may get the card burned. MAYBE double your bet, but maybe don't.