MGM Springfield, Ma.

**paymypush** · 09-06-2018, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by kreil

I went there opening weekend, and to say I was disappointed with the conditions I found would be an understatement. I was eagerly awaiting this joint to open for quite some time.

The property itself is beautiful and has great attention to detail. The poker room is one of the best I've ever seen.

However, the blackjack games are (mostly) terrible. And I don't have confidence in northeast gamblers to be discerning enough to avoid the 6:5 CSM tables and tank their revenue so that they make the rules better. I'm a bit worried that this introduction of 6:5 will spread, not die out, in the northeast (excluding PA of course).

Anyway, during my trip I settled in on one of the only playable tables they had, one of the 3:2 $50 min 6 deck games with no mid-shoe entry (outside the HL room). I played for about 7 hrs with a lunch break. I spread 1x$50 to 2x$300 and wonged out of bad shoes. Despite my small spread, my session ended with a polite backoff. I was up the staggering sum of about $100.

So if anyone here had any doubts left, they do indeed monitor those 3:2 tables closely, and they are not very tolerant of even small spreads.

They absolutely do not like wonging out. They think everyone should play every hand and they seem to take it personally when you don't. That had to contribute to the backoff. At 7 hours I have to wonder if they were waiting for you to lose big so they could enjoy backing you off even more. The twisted minds of casino types.

**cottage cheese** · 09-06-2018, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by paymypush

They absolutely do not like wonging out. They think everyone should play every hand and they seem to take it personally when you don't. That had to contribute to the backoff. At 7 hours I have to wonder if they were waiting for you to lose big so they could enjoy backing you off even more. The twisted minds of casino types.

I was at resorts AC last weekend and they had signs in their hi-limit room stating that players must play all hands due to (insert bullshit reason here). i'd never seen that before (was no MSE). but this place also doesn't let you bet more than 10x table min without a card, so - maybe just par for the course. why are ac casinos so paranoid? because they can't kick you out?

**kreil** · 09-06-2018, 10:06 AM

I understand that to many people that do not regularly play in the northeast that 7 hrs might seem like too long of a session. However, the way you make money here is by playing very long sessions with a bit of an act. The casinos are simply too far apart to only play 90 minute sessions. You would spend most of the time driving, have greatly increased expenses, and end up not getting many hours in by the end of the year. I'm sure some people could make that work if their bankroll was large enough, but for most players camping with a good act is absolutely the way to go. Of course, this approach might soon be inferior since the market is rapidly evolving and new stores are opening, and I'm willing to revisit it.

I regularly play 12+ hr sessions at many northeast casinos and was only backed off at most of them after logging hundreds of hrs with a large cumulative win. So, from my perspective, this is one of the least tolerant games I've played in the northeast market. I played 3-4 hrs, took a lunch break for shift change, and then played another 3-4 hrs. That approach usually works well for me.

I recognize there are many different approaches to beat these games, and we could debate my particular approach at length in another thread perhaps, but for this thread I just wanted to share my experience to help inform others.

**MikePotato** · 09-07-2018, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by kreil

I went there opening weekend, and to say I was disappointed with the conditions I found would be an understatement. I was eagerly awaiting this joint to open for quite some time.

The property itself is beautiful and has great attention to detail. The poker room is one of the best I've ever seen.

However, the blackjack games are (mostly) terrible. And I don't have confidence in northeast gamblers to be discerning enough to avoid the 6:5 CSM tables and tank their revenue so that they make the rules better. I'm a bit worried that this introduction of 6:5 will spread, not die out, in the northeast (excluding PA of course).

Anyway, during my trip I settled in on one of the only playable tables they had, one of the 3:2 $50 min 6 deck games with no mid-shoe entry (outside the HL room). I played for about 7 hrs with a lunch break. I spread 1x$50 to 2x$300 and wonged out of bad shoes. Despite my small spread, my session ended with a polite backoff. I was up the staggering sum of about $100.

So if anyone here had any doubts left, they do indeed monitor those 3:2 tables closely, and they are not very tolerant of even small spreads.

What did the backoff consist of? "No blackjack", "one hand and do not raise your bet"?

**tomf23** · 09-07-2018, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by kreil

I understand that to many people that do not regularly play in the northeast that 7 hrs might seem like too long of a session. However, the way you make money here is by playing very long sessions with a bit of an act. The casinos are simply too far apart to only play 90 minute sessions. You would spend most of the time driving, have greatly increased expenses, and end up not getting many hours in by the end of the year. I'm sure some people could make that work if their bankroll was large enough, but for most players camping with a good act is absolutely the way to go. Of course, this approach might soon be inferior since the market is rapidly evolving and new stores are opening, and I'm willing to revisit it.

I regularly play 12+ hr sessions at many northeast casinos and was only backed off at most of them after logging hundreds of hrs with a large cumulative win. So, from my perspective, this is one of the least tolerant games I've played in the northeast market. I played 3-4 hrs, took a lunch break for shift change, and then played another 3-4 hrs. That approach usually works well for me.

I recognize there are many different approaches to beat these games, and we could debate my particular approach at length in another thread perhaps, but for this thread I just wanted to share my experience to help inform others.

this might motivate me to play longer hours, although 7 really does seem like a lot.
i get what you're saying about not wanting to only play for 1-2 hours and then have to drive an hour to another casino because ev wise it just isn't worth it.

**BJGenius007** · 09-07-2018, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by MikePotato

What did the backoff consist of? "No blackjack", "one hand and do not raise your bet"?

"No Blackjack today. Come back tomorrow."

**kreil** · 09-07-2018, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by MikePotato

What did the backoff consist of? "No blackjack", "one hand and do not raise your bet"?

It was very simple and polite.

CM: "Hi there, I'm [...], the casino manager. Listen, I gotta ask you to go, we don't want your action. You can go to the cage."

Me: "Ok, no problem. Thanks."

**MikePotato** · 09-07-2018, 01:30 PM

Thanks much for the quick reply.

**paymypush** · 09-09-2018, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by cottage cheese

I was at resorts AC last weekend and they had signs in their hi-limit room stating that players must play all hands due to (insert bullshit reason here). i'd never seen that before (was no MSE). but this place also doesn't let you bet more than 10x table min without a card, so - maybe just par for the course. why are ac casinos so paranoid? because they can't kick you out?

I checked Resorts a few minutes ago. They have the 10x signs but not the play every hand signs. Wasn't it Borgata that started that nonsense? I have in the past seen the play every hand signs on the main floor at Resorts. They can't tell you no more blackjack but they sure can make the game unplayable.

I've gotten in some quality time at Hard Rock so far, 3:2, S17, surrender etc. It's the only place in the city that offers surrender with the player not having to ask. Just sit down and surrender away!

Really enjoyed the Miss America parade on the Boardwalk last night. Those classic cars were something! Oh yeah, the ladies too!

**tomf23** · 09-09-2018, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by paymypush

I checked Resorts a few minutes ago. They have the 10x signs but not the play every hand signs. Wasn't it Borgata that started that nonsense? I have in the past seen the play every hand signs on the main floor at Resorts. They can't tell you no more blackjack but they sure can make the game unplayable.

I've gotten in some quality time at Hard Rock so far, 3:2, S17, surrender etc. It's the only place in the city that offers surrender with the player not having to ask. Just sit down and surrender away!

Really enjoyed the Miss America parade on the Boardwalk last night. Those classic cars were something! Oh yeah, the ladies too!

is hard rocks s17 only in the high limit pit? I didn't see any on the main floor

**refinery** · 09-09-2018, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by paymypush

I checked Resorts a few minutes ago. They have the 10x signs but not the play every hand signs. Wasn't it Borgata that started that nonsense? I have in the past seen the play every hand signs on the main floor at Resorts. They can't tell you no more blackjack but they sure can make the game unplayable.

I've gotten in some quality time at Hard Rock so far, 3:2, S17, surrender etc. It's the only place in the city that offers surrender with the player not having to ask. Just sit down and surrender away!

Really enjoyed the Miss America parade on the Boardwalk last night. Those classic cars were something! Oh yeah, the ladies too!

Tropicana has the signs about not sitting out.

Originally Posted by tomf23

is hard rocks s17 only in the high limit pit? I didn't see any on the main floor

Look harder.