Effective 8/1/2018 Card Counters Can't be Kicked Out of Louisiana Casinos

[lij45o6]

Thank you Freightman for thinking of me. It’s good to hear I’m always on your mind. Btw, I think there is a song with that title: “You’re always on my mind.” Maybe that could be our song.

Gwen McCrae? Elvis Presley? Willie Nelson? Pet Shop Boys?

[BoSox]

Since I’m a business person, I thought I could give back by explaining how businesses work and why they operate the way they do.

Why thank you, now that's the spirit. Meanwhile, please learn how to spell ZeeBabar.

[Dbs6582]

Why thank you, now that's the spirit. Meanwhile, please learn how to spell ZeeBabar.

No problem, you’re welcome Bosox. And thanks for correcting me. I think I’ll just call him Zee for short since it’s easier to spell and because our styles and goals are similar. He also doesn’t call me names and ridicule me like many on this site...and he’s open to new ideas. There’s some leasons people on this site could learn from Zee, especially on how to treat people.

Now back to us Bosox. Since Freightman and I now have a song, maybe we should be thinking about a song for us.

Freightman, as far as which version, I’m voting for the Pet Shop Boys or Willie Nelson. Those two have always been my favorites.

[ZeeBabar]

Norm, hope you notice how much my name is being thrown out on a thread I was not participating in.

[ShipTheCookies]

Norm, hope you notice how much my name is being thrown out on a thread I was not participating in.

See, they're jealous bastards that just WISH they could play instead of the fake ass personas they flaunt here.

[Midwest Player]

I hope nobody hates Amazon now because they back off some of their customers. They are my favorite company. I even like them more now when I learned they follow the same principles the casinos follow, backing off unprofitable custimers.

Can you back up this statement with a link?

[Dbs6582]

Can you back up this statement with a link?

Sure, I can when I get to my commuter. Right now I’m traveling. I don’t know how to do links on my phone. You will find several articles about this topic if you type in “return too many items on Amazon, Will Amazon ban your account.” Or
similar key words. Amazon doesn’t want this to get out since it’s not good public relations. Same reason casinos don’t want too many people seeing someone being backed off.

My point is casinos don’t think any different than any other business. They don’t like negative EV customers...surprise surprise! When I see Theee use words like “threat” I can tell he doesn’t understand the fundamentals of how a business thinks. Business don’t like any negative EV customers no matter how small. Business aren’t a charity organization.

I still haven’t had any APs answer my question. Why does Max Rubin back off relatively low level counters at his casino? Some of these people have got their picture taken with Max Rubin after they got backed off. Doesn’t Max knows these people aren’t a “threat” to his casino? Who knows some of them might be playing with their slot playing wife, or a bunch of high roller ploppies.

[BoSox]

See, they're jealous bastards that just WISH they could play instead of the fake ass personas they flaunt here.

And who are you again? Sir in your entire lifetime you will never come close to equaling the blackjack knowledge that ZenMaster _Flash already possesses.

[mofungoo]

While it may be casino policy to allow counters to play unfettered, a pit boss (not a floor clerk) does not want his/her shift to look bad and it is possible s/he will back off or countermeasure a player who is winning. Gotta get the drop and hold numbers up there so his/her boss will be happy.

[21forme]

Gotta get the drop and hold numbers up there so his/her boss will be happy.

That's assuming the boss is a moron, too. A boss with a brain would fire anyone who backs off someone just for winning.

[lij45o6]

Sure, I can when I get to my commuter. Right now I’m traveling. I don’t know how to do links on my phone. You will find several articles about this topic if you type in “return too many items on Amazon, Will Amazon ban your account.” Or
similar key words. Amazon doesn’t want this to get out since it’s not good public relations. Same reason casinos don’t want too many people seeing someone being backed off.

My point is casinos don’t think any different than any other business. They don’t like negative EV customers...surprise surprise! When I see Theee use words like “threat” I can tell he doesn’t understand the fundamentals of how a business thinks. Business don’t like any negative EV customers no matter how small. Business aren’t a charity organization.

I still haven’t had any APs answer my question. Why does Max Rubin back off relatively low level counters at his casino? Some of these people have got their picture taken with Max Rubin after they got backed off. Doesn’t Max knows these people aren’t a “threat” to his casino? Who knows some of them might be playing with their slot playing wife, or a bunch of high roller ploppies.

The above also assumes that the cost of catching counters is less than that of the cost of the sum of all counter revenue. That is, if counters cost more than counter-measures then, sure...I can see why implementing Griffin, Biometrica, SIN, OSN, and other great things are needed. On the other hand, consultants, cameras, software...this cost beaucoup bucks. I want to know what the cost for all these services are and what both the average and median income of card counters is. Statistical analysis will point us in the right direction.

Elliot Jacobson, a casino consultant, suggest that casinos simply let counter play. That is the same sentiment of Zender, another consultant. Casinos see a player spread their bet and leave with 1-2K per session and think they are raping them. Far from the truth! To suggest that businesses hate -EV action while simultaneously spending gobs of money on a small problem suggest that its most likely not the money that they care about. Remember, it is assumed that most counters are hawks, but that may be farther from the truth. Most are underfunded, under-skilled, and poorly trained. A good casino will feature an 8D games with good rules for the ploppies (S17, DAS RSA or LS) with about 1D cut off. That way, marginal counters get their asses beaten to death when they lose the count and ploppies get a good cheap game.

As per Rubin, if I am not mistaken, it is casino policy to back off any alleged counter. Many counters know that Barona is a sweat shop and know Rubin is a hawk. However, from what I see...seems like a cool guy. So, some will intentially get backed of by Max for, as you say, getting a picture with the guy. A right of passage similar to getting barred from the Sweaty Spaniard.

Oh, and FYI: Barona is also the home of the "Blackjack Hall of Fame".

[Dbs6582]

Oh, and FYI: Barona is also the home of the "Blackjack Hall of Fame".

Yes, I fully understand Barona is home to the Blackjack Hall of Fame”. Doesn’t that somewhat support my point? One of the sweatiest casinos in America is home to the BJ Hall of Fame. If I’m not mistaken, I think Max Rubin was also the person who started and organizes the Blackjack Ball.

Why do APs give Max and Barona a pass when they backoff counters? I thought this was supposed to hurt a casino’s revenues. It seems like there is a double standard here. If it makes sense to backoff counters at Barona, then it probably makes sense to do it at other casinos too.

Im really surprised this is even discussed that much on forums since I don’t think backing off marginal counters is a big problem. I’ve been going to casinos for 20 years across United States and never seen it occur. I know it probably occurs but I doubt if it’s an epidemic. And when a marginal counter is backed off, he probably just became more profitable to the casino industry. I’ve already made this point many times.

[mofungoo]

That's assuming the boss is a moron, too. A boss with a brain would fire anyone who backs off someone just for winning.

Some of these bosses really aren't that bright, even at the General Manager and Shift Boss level.