Traveling the country / minimizing expenses

[Freightman]

Very nice post 31 by Flash, worthy of additional discussion.

What I know for sure, is that the competent AP Blackjack community, within a casino setting, is very very small. What I don't have a firm handle on, is the proportions of fun living ploppies to gambling problem players. I'm going to say, for arguments sake, that the proportion is 70-30, 30% being the problem gambler.

Factoid
Freightman has never used a credit card, or used a debit card within a casino. We've all walked past the ATM a thousand times while some poor schmuck sees printed across the screen - insufficient funds.

The message mentioned above, hits all economic stratas. No one is immune. Someone posted some ridiculous commentary about value added services if a casino. Make no mistake - Regardless if any marketing or any make nice scenarios, casinos goal is to empty your wallet, regardless of any effect on a "clients" ability to pay rent, make the mortgage, put food on the table, keep the utilities on. They simple don't give a shit, I've seen far to many instances. I've also heard far to many self serving justifications from senior critters, with absolutely no sympathy saying "how are we supposed to know where he/she is getting the money. And in it goes.

Yet, the reality is that AP's need both the ploppy and the problem gambler to deposit funds, so that we may withdraw, so to speak.

Other opinions of thoughts?

For the ploppy who is there for entertainment, willing to lose a few hundred dollars and who is in tune with their financial circumstance - no issues. For most others, beware.

[Dbs6582]

Very nice post 31 by Flash, worthy of additional discussion.

What I know for sure, is that the competent AP Blackjack community, within a casino setting, is very very small. What I don't have a firm handle on, is the proportions of fun living ploppies to gambling problem players. I'm going to say, for arguments sake, that the proportion is 70-30, 30% being the problem gambler.

Factoid
Freightman has never used a credit card, or used a debit card within a casino. We've all walked past the ATM a thousand times while some poor schmuck sees printed across the screen - insufficient funds.

The message mentioned above, hits all economic stratas. No one is immune. Someone posted some ridiculous commentary about value added services if a casino. Make no mistake - Regardless if any marketing or any make nice scenarios, casinos goal is to empty your wallet, regardless of any effect on a "clients" ability to pay rent, make the mortgage, put food on the table, keep the utilities on. They simple don't give a shit, I've seen far to many instances. I've also heard far to many self serving justifications from senior critters, with absolutely no sympathy saying "how are we supposed to know where he/she is getting the money. And in it goes.

Yet, the reality is that AP's need both the ploppy and the problem gambler to deposit funds, so that we may withdraw, so to speak.

Other opinions of thoughts?

For the ploppy who is there for entertainment, willing to lose a few hundred dollars and who is in tune with their financial circumstance - no issues. For most others, beware.

Freightman, I hesitated to respond to your post but couldn't control myself. Flash's post made sense...your post made little sense.

Are you saying a casino should be responsible for knowing the person's financial situation? Are you saying the casino should know who is able to pay their rent and mortgage and who is not? I don't know where to start with this.

Your beliefs go against what most APs believe. As a refresher, most APs believe a person should not have to show ID to be able to play in a casino. To do what you think a casino should do, a person would not only have to show the casino their ID, but they would also have to give the casino all their financial information. This information would then be used to determine if a person would be allowed to play. Are you serious? I'm pretty sure what you have suggested would violate a lot of laws in our country, the least of which would be discrimination against poor people.

The one comment you made that made sense is that both the casino and AP need the ploppy. Without the ploppy, neither the casino or AP exists. As far as the problem gambler, I don't believe the majority of casinos or APs want this. The problem is it comes with the territory. It's the same situation with companies that sell alcohol. They don't want it to destroy lives, but the reality is it will. While most people will drink responsibly, some will not.

As far as the casino's goals, it's the same as with most companies. It's primary goal is to make money for its shareholders.

We are a nation of laws. If the casino is breaking these laws, then our government should shut them down. Or they should be sued out of existence. If they are abiding by our laws, then they should be allowed to operate. It is not a casino or any other businesse's responsibility to check up on the financial situation of a person, unless they are taking out a loan (of course).

I guess I don't see casinos as the Evil Empire. Just because we're trying to beat them doesn't mean we can't respect them. I see it kind a like sports. I always respected my opponent even though I also wanted to beat them.

[Freightman]

Freightman, I hesitated to respond to your post but couldn't control myself. Flash's post made sense...your post made little sense.

Are you saying a casino should be responsible for knowing the person's financial situation? Are you saying the casino should know who is able to pay their rent and mortgage and who is not? I don't know where to start with this.

Your beliefs go against what most APs believe. As a refresher, most APs believe a person should not have to show ID to be able to play in a casino. To do what you think a casino should do, a person would not only have to show the casino their ID, but they would also have to give the casino all their financial information. This information would then be used to determine if a person would be allowed to play. Are you serious? I'm pretty sure what you have suggested would violate a lot of laws in our country, the least of which would be discrimination against poor people.

The one comment you made that made sense is that both the casino and AP need the ploppy. Without the ploppy, neither the casino or AP exists. As far as the problem gambler, I don't believe the majority of casinos or APs want this. The problem is it comes with the territory. It's the same situation with companies that sell alcohol. They don't want it to destroy lives, but the reality is it will. While most people will drink responsibly, some will not.

As far as the casino's goals, it's the same as with most companies. It's primary goal is to make money for its shareholders.

We are a nation of laws. If the casino is breaking these laws, then our government should shut them down. Or they should be sued out of existence. If they are abiding by our laws, then they should be allowed to operate. It is not a casino or any other businesse's responsibility to check up on the financial situation of a person, unless they are taking out a loan (of course).

I guess I don't see casinos as the Evil Empire. Just because we're trying to beat them doesn't mean we can't respect them. I see it kind a like sports. I always respected my opponent even though I also wanted to beat them.

Ustonzen, oops, I meant Dbs6582
As usual, you purposely interpet out of context. In addition to the standard disclaimers pertaining to most your opinions, I refer vehemently to paragraph 2.

I can cite numerous examples, but, I'll restrain myself and suggest only 3, involving 3 seperate stores.

General Manager Dirty Dingus Magee, when informed that patron x, a warehouse worker, was blowing several hundreds of dollars a day over an e tended 3 weeks, which he already knew, declined to inform his patron if using game sense to control his losses. He exclaimed - how am I to know where he gets his money from - which means, I really don't give a shit if we break him or not.

A bookkeeper, patron b, lost about 200k over a 2-3 month period. I guarantee the money didn't come from her savings account. Casino has seen this scenario multiple times.

Patron C, previously under self exclusion, a situation known by the casino blew 250k over 1 week. When the carnage was over, patron c started crying, exclaims no that he had lost everything. Casino didn't give a shit.

I'm aware if a much larger situation of known criminal activity supporting a huge gambling addiction. I'm reluctant to post details, as that could could point a finger in my direction.

I am humored how casino morals and ethics with regards to behaviour, declines in proportion to the marks pocket book.

Your overall defence of casino morals and ethics makes me want to puke.

[Dbs6582]

Ustonzen, oops, I meant Dbs6582
As usual, you purposely interpet out of context. In addition to the standard disclaimers pertaining to most your opinions, I refer vehemently to paragraph 2.

I can cite numerous examples, but, I'll restrain myself and suggest only 3, involving 3 seperate stores.

General Manager Dirty Dingus Magee, when informed that patron x, a warehouse worker, was blowing several hundreds of dollars a day over an e tended 3 weeks, which he already knew, declined to inform his patron if using game sense to control his losses. He exclaimed - how am I to know where he gets his money from - which means, I really don't give a shit if we break him or not.

A bookkeeper, patron b, lost about 200k over a 2-3 month period. I guarantee the money didn't come from her savings account. Casino has seen this scenario multiple times.

Patron C, previously under self exclusion, a situation known by the casino blew 250k over 1 week. When the carnage was over, patron c started crying, exclaims no that he had lost everything. Casino didn't give a shit.

I'm aware if a much larger situation of known criminal activity supporting a huge gambling addiction. I'm reluctant to post details, as that could could point a finger in my direction.

I am humored how casino morals and ethics with regards to behaviour, declines in proportion to the marks pocket book.

Your overall defence of casino morals and ethics makes me want to puke.

Okay, once again you're painting a broad brush on a whole industry by given isolated examples. Btw, you do this in bj disagreements too. You alway make up some hypothetical situation where a dealer or player gets such and such cards. You don't look at a situation in a larger context as a math problem.

This may come as a surprise to you but there are bad apples in every industry. That's why we have laws. Did I mention we are a nation of laws? Do you remember what happened to Enron? They are no longer operating. Our government shut them down and put many of their top level people in jail. Like with all industries, I'm sure their are some casinos that operate outside the law, on the edges of the law and there are ones that are very upstanding and operate within the law. I am only defending the casinos that are operating within the law. I hope that doesn't make you puke.

If a casino is breaking a law, you should report it to get them shut down and/or get someone thrown in jail. If you know something illegal is going on and you look away, that's on you.

Btw, are you one of those that blames the banks when they foreclose on a house because a person can't pay their mortgage? Blame the landlord for evicting someone when they don't pay their rent? Are you one of those that blames businesses for desicions made by individuals?

Here's a novel concept you've probably never thought about. With freedom comes responsibility!

[Freightman]

Okay, once again you're painting a broad brush on a whole industry by given isolated examples. Btw, you do this in bj disagreements too. You alway make up some hypothetical situation where a dealer or player gets such and such cards. You don't look at a situation in a larger context as a math problem.

This may come as a surprise to you but there are bad apples in every industry. That's why we have laws. Did I mention we are a nation of laws? Do you remember what happened to Enron? They are no longer operating. Our government shut them down and put many of their top level people in jail. Like with all industries, I'm sure their are some casinos that operate outside the law, on the edges of the law and there are ones that are very upstanding and operate within the law. I am only defending the casinos that are operating within the law. I hope that doesn't make you puke.

If a casino is breaking a law, you should report it to get them shut down and/or get someone thrown in jail. If you know something illegal is going on and you look away, that's on you.

Btw, are you one of those that blames the banks when they foreclose on a house because a person can't pay their mortgage? Blame the landlord for evicting someone when they don't pay their rent? Are you one of those that blames businesses for desicions made by individuals?

Here's a novel concept you've probably never thought about. With freedom comes responsibility!

Ustonzen
The purpose of debate is.....debate - not, as previously commented on by me, to you - a circular reference of endless iterations - endless, useless trivia.

So, to satisfy your mania, might I suggest you search a round room, and pee in the corner. Hopefully, that will keep you occupied and titilated. You are not worthy of response.

[ZeeBabar]

Okay, once again you're painting a broad brush on a whole industry by given isolated examples. Btw, you do this in bj disagreements too. You alway make up some hypothetical situation where a dealer or player gets such and such cards. You don't look at a situation in a larger context as a math problem.

This may come as a surprise to you but there are bad apples in every industry. That's why we have laws. Did I mention we are a nation of laws? Do you remember what happened to Enron? They are no longer operating. Our government shut them down and put many of their top level people in jail. Like with all industries, I'm sure their are some casinos that operate outside the law, on the edges of the law and there are ones that are very upstanding and operate within the law. I am only defending the casinos that are operating within the law. I hope that doesn't make you puke.

If a casino is breaking a law, you should report it to get them shut down and/or get someone thrown in jail. If you know something illegal is going on and you look away, that's on you.

Btw, are you one of those that blames the banks when they foreclose on a house because a person can't pay their mortgage? Blame the landlord for evicting someone when they don't pay their rent? Are you one of those that blames businesses for desicions made by individuals?

Here's a novel concept you've probably never thought about. With freedom comes responsibility!

It's quite funny reading about a "nation of laws". Shut down Enron but Volkswagon, Audi, Wall Street Bankers, O J Simpson, whole lot of dead and jailed African Americans.....

Reasons for Norm to shut this thread down.

[Norm]

Damn I'm sick of this childish, prattle.