Surveillance Got It Wrong

[Yule]

$15 table, True Count is 2. I had a $75 bet, and I get blackjack (2 other players also have blackjack). Dealer’s upcard is a 10. I didn’t think the dealer checked his hole card with the electronic eye. But whatever, not my problem, he pays me $112.50, and pays off the other two blackjack hands.

Play continues, one guy busts, the other two hit, then stand on 18 & 19. While that is going on, I grabbed my blackjack chips and original bet and restacked my chips (I have a big stack of green plus 2 reds, and one pink $2.50 chip). I’m planning on lowering my next bet because the count has dropped.

The dealer flips over his hole card & he has blackjack. Oops! Chaos ensues. The dealer looks a bit flustered.

The dealer thought he checked his hole card, and got the green light. Another player says yeah the light was green. Then the dealer remembers that he paid out some blackjacks, but his memory is a little bit fuzzy. He asks me what I had, and I say I don’t remember, and I look back at the baseball game on tv. While the players and dealer were discussing, I rat holed my two red chips & pink chip, and put a single $25 green chip back into my betting circle.

Pit boss is called over to the table, and she calls surveillance for help. Dealer tells the pit boss that I had a $75 blackjack hand that he paid off. She looks at my stack of green, and says, “Well he doesn’t have any red or pink chips”.

I figured at the worst, that I would be asked to give back the $112.50. I’m not sure what surveillance actually said to the pit boss, but she ruled that I had to pay back $37.50 (which would have been correct if it was only $25 blackjack). So, I paid back the $37.50 , and the game moved on.

My main question is about surveillance. Are the camera angles that bad? Is the surveillance staff incompetent? They can’t tell the difference between a $75 bet and a $25 bet. Do they know the rules of blackjack?

Also, how much of your profit is from dealer mistakes, 5%? I have seen many dealer mistakes. When it is in the casino’s favor, I speak-up quickly. I try to be polite about it, and it is easiest to fix a mistake if you catch it right away. When the mistake is in my favor, I do not say anything to help the dealer/pit boss.

[refinery]

To me, that's an angle shoot and I don't agree with it ethically. I am generally very liberal about such things but as described I don't like it.

Surveillance staff can certainly be terrible and disinterested at times.

[tomf23]

casinos are the biggest angle shooters in the world
let them get a taste of their own medicine.

[Three]

My main question is about surveillance. Are the camera angles that bad? Is the surveillance staff incompetent? They can’t tell the difference between a $75 bet and a $25 bet. Do they know the rules of blackjack?

Nobody can say for sure. They might have decided to just go with your current bet rather than review it just to keep the game moving. Rounds per hour is money to the casino. I have had very similar things happen with calls to surveillance. The resolution to a call to surveillance usually seems to have two goals. Keep the game moving and make sure the players are happy. Of course if they don't like you they may not care about the latter. players will usually lose the same amount whether you give them extra or not. Being generous may have them play more frequently in the future. While I see really dumb things done by casino personnel, the smarter casinos understand the logic behind this approach.

[Midwest Player]

I wouldn't have lied in this situation. Of course, saying you don't remember is not a lie. However, you know this is going to be reviewed by the eye in the sky. In situations like this in the past where the light comes up green and dealer really has blackjack many casinos will just call this 21 and not a blackjack.

[Three]

I have had a casino call it a dead hand if nobody had a BJ. Smart casinos make sure that not only do their players have nothing to complain about, their players feel that the casino is generous in these situations.

[Midwest Player]

Smart casinos make sure that not only do their players have nothing to complain about, their players feel that the casino is generous in these situations.

Agree.

[Banker]

Of course, saying you don't remember is not a lie

How so? It cannot be proven as a lie but still a lie.

[Three]

Midwest player was the Clinton's lawyer.

[Bushie]

Once the bets are paid it's your money. They can't take it back.

But I'd consider this; giving the $37.50 back is a positive longevity move (and it doesn't make you look like a complete ass). Because they'd be faster to refuse the action of someone they dislike sooner than that of someone who is friendly, polite and courteous.

[Three]

Once the bets are paid it's your money. They can't take it back.

This depends on what jurisdiction you are playing in (True in Vegas). In some jurisdictions you could be prosecuted for theft if you don't return the money. It is unlikely the casino would do that but I have seen it threatened when it is a known shot taker that got the misplay. Everyone else the return of money was a request. They all returned it so I am not sure what would have happened if one didn't voluntarily return the mispay. The Floor told me they only take the threaten of arrest against undesirables. For players that they want to have around the threat would not happen. My guess is they would say this time we will let you have the misplay but not next time. You would think that courtesy would then be offered to everyone but the shot taker. My guess is not everyone would take them up on the offer.

[hitthat16]

I have had a casino call it a dead hand if nobody had a BJ. Smart casinos make sure that not only do their players have nothing to complain about, their players feel that the casino is generous in these situations.

Agreed. Giving the players a good deal in these situations will keep them at the table much longer and make the house more money in the end.

[Sharky]

It depends on the cameras...HD should be able to discern chips...once I went to the WC and came back to NO cchips...lol...seems that Kat next to me helped himself...believe he was drunk...anyways, in the end i believe I was shorted and surveillance told me "they couldn't confirm the exact amount as my stacks were mixed denoms"...go figure...this was a big, newer store, too

It made me feel safer about my obnoxious spreads, though