Insurance Heat... Only take even money?

[BoSox]

As I understand it from what Don et al are saying, you don't know the cards that will come out between the moment you make the insurance bet and the moment the dealer will draw their card, so the fact that they will exist mean nothing in relation to making the decision whether to make the insurance bet or not.

You are now describing a European NHC or no peak game. I am not familiar with playing that type of game, but i'm sure the basic principle of when to take or not take insurance still applies.

[BoSox]

"Even Money" doesn't pay 1:1. It's an insurance bet equal to half of the Player's bet (on his/her blackjack) that wins and is paid out 2:1. The player's blackjack pushes against the dealer's blackjack. The net is 1:1 of the player's initial bet, but it is not a bet that pays 1:1 (after all,the player is betting additional money) and so the shorthand used by dealers and players is "Even money". The additional bet pays 2:1, just like insurance on every other hand. And when the odds that the dealer's second card (either downcard or drawn at end of hand) will be a 10 or face merit a 2:1 bet in favor, then it is a far better bet to make than to "hold out for a 3:2 payment" without the bonus insurance bet the player could (and should) make in that situation.

As I understand it from what Don et al are saying, you don't know the cards that will come out between the moment you make the insurance bet and the moment the dealer will draw their card, so the fact that they will exist mean nothing in relation to making the decision whether to make the insurance bet or not. And that 2:1 insurance bet is worth the same thing regardless of the player's starting hand, be it a blackjack, a stiff 16, a suited pair of tens, or anything else. A 2:1 bet that will make money is a 2:1 bet that will make money.

Good try but Three could have more thoroughly explained the concept in five paragraphs. For me, I will just take even money when I have blackjack and the TC is +3.

[JamesonDetroit]

Good try but Three could have more thoroughly explained the concept in five paragraphs. For me, I will just take even money when I have blackjack and the TC is +3.

By all means, I would welcome him doing so!

If not, perhaps my summary will at least help clarify the confusion on Bushie's end.

[Frank Galvin]

You are now describing a European NHC or no peak game. I am not familiar with playing that type of game, but i'm sure the basic principle of when to take or not take insurance still applies.

Exactly. See Don S.'s post #36 in this thread.

[BoSox]

Exactly. See Don S.'s post #36 in this thread.

Thank you Frank.

[Bubbles]

I will insure 20s and blackjacks slightly below index and sometimes wait until slightly above index to insure stiffs. I don't worry about how it looks. I get the money out there and don't waste change on cover.

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[Freightman]

I will insure 20s and blackjacks slightly below index and sometimes wait until slightly above index to insure stiffs. I don't worry about how it looks. I get the money out there and don't waste change on cover.

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Concur. Tendency towards risk averse on the good hands, and waiting past the break even strike point on crap hands.

[Bushie]

You are now describing a European NHC or no peak game. I am not familiar with playing that type of game, but i'm sure the basic principle of when to take or not take insurance still applies.

No no no. Do NOT mistake European No Cole Card (ENHC) with NHC. There's some significant differences, such as BB+1, OBBO, OBO etc.

[BoSox]

Because the dealer draws a second card AFTER all players' hands are settled, which means that the remaining decks' composition has changed from where it was at the beginning of the round (usually lowering the TC, it gets complex with the number of players etc). This can mean that the remaining composition may not call for even money, and often doesn't. Whilst obviously with hole card play dealer BJ is settled before any cards are dealt.

So yeah, even money is basically NEVER the right call in NHC games.

Are you saying that players can make their insurance decisions after all the players to their right have already received hit/double cards on their hands? If that is true depending on the number of hands played in front of a person, and how deep you are already into the shoe the person who holds the last "3rd base" seat has a distinct advantage over all others seated on insurance decisions.

Originally Posted by BoSox

You are now describing a European NHC or no peak game. I am not familiar with playing that type of game, but i'm sure the basic principle of when to take or not take insurance still applies.

Bushie wrote:

"No no no. Do NOT mistake European No Cole Card (ENHC) with NHC. There's some significant differences, such as BB+1, OBBO, OBO etc."

Ok I admit I am now confused, and what does BB+1, OBBO, OBO etc, all this mean?

[Freightman]

Are you saying that players can make their insurance decisions after all the players to their right have already received hit/double cards on their hands? If that is true depending on the number of hands played in front of a person, and how deep you are already into the shoe the person who holds the last "3rd base" seat has a distinct advantage over all others seated on insurance decisions.

Originally Posted by BoSox

You are now describing a European NHC or no peak game. I am not familiar with playing that type of game, but i'm sure the basic principle of when to take or not take insurance still applies.

Bushie wrote:

"No no no. Do NOT mistake European No Cole Card (ENHC) with NHC. There's some significant differences, such as BB+1, OBBO, OBO etc."

Ok I admit I am now confused, and what does BB+1, OBBO, OBO etc, all this mean?

Bosox
NHC is what I play. Dealer takes no hole card. ENHC, where dealer also takes no hole card, player loses all splits doubles etc., to dealer BJ. NHC, dealer loses original bet only (OBO).

Bushie is correct in saying that all player have stood, or busted, before dealer resolves his hand, and that deck composition has changed before doing so. A nice reason to play heads up.

[BoSox]

Bosox
NHC is what I play. Dealer takes no hole card. ENHC, where dealer also takes no hole card, player loses all splits doubles etc., to dealer BJ. NHC, dealer loses original bet only (OBO).

Bushie is correct in saying that all player have stood, or busted, before dealer resolves his hand, and that deck composition has changed before doing so. A nice reason to play heads up.

Thank you. Again I will ask can the players seated at the same table have the option to take insurance when their turn comes up, as in after others have hit, doubled, or split ect?

[Freightman]

Thank you. Again I will ask can the players seated at the same table have the option to take insurance when their turn comes up, as in after others have hit, doubled, or split ect?

Insurance must be taken before first base makes his first decision.

[Gronbog]

In this case, the insurance decision for all forms of NHC is no different than for games with a hole card. An unexposed hole card is mathematically no different than one which drawn after all hands have been played.