Flat Betting team play strategy, maybe?

[San Jose Bella]

Today, I just thought about a flat betting strategy that might work. I only have a general idea but I've never tried it, has anyone tried it before?

It's a table-hopping team play strategy, although I haven't run the numbers, I believe it would only work at High limit tables(0.285% house edge), otherwise, it would be too costly to implement. It surely requires a lot of money to implement.

The concept is to let the small betters help the low count to go faster, and let the BP enjoy the high count by himself.

One big player with 5 small betters.

The big player doesn't seem to know anybody, 5 small betters know each other and talk to each other like friends would do.

The big player always flat bet big money, 5 small betters always bet small.

All small betters stand up when the TC is +1 or up.
2 small betters sit down and bet when the TC is 0 to +1.
5 small betters sit down and bet when the TC is below 0.
BP only wong-in at TC+1, he stands up behind the table when the TC is below -1.

BP doesn't leave the table when the shoe reached the cut card because he doesn't stand up when the TC is 0 at the beginning of the shoe.

BP stands up about one-third of the time.

No signal communication is required within the team except one small better keeps a perfect insurance count to signal the BP whether to buy.

It requires the high limit area to be not so populated, so other people are not likely to join the table.

If the BP stands up at TC-3 or below and still makes a profit, No mid-shoe-entry at $XX up rule won't affect much because small betters always enter at minimum bet. I'm not sure how costly it would be if the BP only stand up til TC-3 or below.

Obviously, the count changes fast, so all players must be around the table all the time during the shoe. The small betters come in the casino together, pretending to be tourist group, they would talk to each other stand up or sit down. When the BP needs to stand up, he pretends there's a phone call coming or something.

It doesn't require a lot of tables, that's why I come up with this idea. It seems only MGM has a lot of .285% tables, most of the casinos in Vegas only have 1-4 good tables, but it's not a problem since everyone gathers at one table. Small betters be like only wanting to play at high limit, but don't have enough fund to bet more than the minimum, so they don't leave the table.

Do you guys think this strategy would seem suspicious?
Do you guys think this strategy would be too costly for the cover if using a 1-100 or 1-50 spread($25/$50-$2500)?

[Freightman]

There's a way to make this work, but you're plan is asking for 6 trespasses.

[Stealth]

BP/Spotter or back counters can work and yes I have done this countless times.

Your concept is too weak and as Freight indicated you will get major heat.

Calling in a BP at TC2 and flat betting is a good way to minimize some heat if structured properly in the right casinos. Getting the BP called in without identifying him as part of a team is the trick. Obviously, flat betting is counter to Lone wolf play of ramping to your max bet so the BP and team must have a bankroll large enough and a willingness to withstand the variance.

You indicated it is too costly, I assume you mean in variance because the EV generated by BP round is high. If you only make big bets when you have an advantage, what is the cost? EV by spotters is break even.

In training to do this, we actually role play with spotters and BP's to make sure it happens as planned. Signaling strategy is critical to cover. Errors are brutal and unintended consequences will occur.

Both the BP and the spotters must have playing protocols well defined.

Many more issues to consider.

[Meistro123]

This doesn't look particularly effective, a traditional five spotter one big player team would be much better because you would be able to observe so many more shoes and find high true count situations. I'd imagine it would also look somewhat comical and suspicious.

[chucky baby]

I can't believe that you are all rabbitting on about modus operandi to foil casino card catchers. There are lots and lots of ways to get away with team play but why discuss them in a public forum?? To whose benefit??

An opinion from Chucky Baby.

[SpikeBJ]

Much better using the "drunken frat brothers" single session sting.

copyright by
Heywood Jablome

[Jabberwocky]

Casinos are pretty easy on individual APs. Team play is something they take more seriously.

He needs to assemble an undetectable team.
There is one way to do it.

[BJGenius007]

BP/Spotter or back counters can work and yes I have done this countless times.

Team play using spotters and big bet player are the core concept of movie "21" and what MIT team did. That MIT can succeed is because they are the first team to do that. Now casinos know the concept, it will be much more difficult to pull it off again.

[Freightman]

Casinos are pretty easy on individual APs. Team play is something they take more seriously.

Agreed, big time.

[Stealth]

Casinos are pretty easy on individual APs. Team play is something they take more seriously.

Yep, AP's get backed off, team players get trespassed.

[San Jose Bella]

Haha, thank you. I thought this strategy might be stupid, just curious how people would think about it.

There's a way to make this work, but you're plan is asking for 6 trespasses.

[john2018]

...

[Stealth]

Not sure who the four are that voted this play will get an immediate boot but you are wrong. I have been involved with several thousand sessions (BP called in flat betting) and it was rarely caught, if designed properly. On the few occasions we were caught, it had to do with the call in procedure not the play itself. We had very specific entry and exit protocols that added cover.

I wonder if the four voters have done this unsuccessfully or are just sharing an opinion???