What kind of records do you keep?

RS · 02-08-2013, 12:42 AM

How do you keep logs or records of play? ie: Notebook, software, excel, etc.
What kind of info do you record? ie: Start/stop times, EV, win/loss amount in units or dollars, shift played, tips, casino, level of heat, perhaps spread/game played (if you play different BJ games), or game played in general (if you play VP, BJ, and craps for example?), expenses (food, travel, etc.), comps, units/dollars rat-holed, or anything else I'm forgetting or not thinking of.
How do you break down "one entry" of your record? Do you have a record for every table you have sit down at, or for every day you've played, or every session, or every trip, or for every month?
What do you do with the records you keep? Do you just look at them and smile or frown? Or do you graph and analyze your records, to see how your results compare to your EV?

**mofungoo** · 02-08-2013, 06:12 AM

I keep simple records in a pocket notebook I carry into the casino with me that consist of the day of the week, date, time, casino, type of game, win/loss, elapsed time and remarks. I record each table. After each day I total win/loss and time. I tried entering that data into a computer program for sorting purposes but it was too time consuming so I quit doing that.

**moo321** · 02-08-2013, 08:18 AM

It is the law of the Unites States that anyone who gambles must keep records of their net win and loss every time they go into a casino. So, that should be kept at a minimum.

**Boz** · 02-08-2013, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by moo321

It is the law of the Unites States that anyone who gambles must keep records of their net win and loss every time they go into a casino. So, that should be kept at a minimum.

Generally, it's not the law that anyone has to record a net loss.

**AP2win** · 02-08-2013, 08:20 PM

Just about everything you mentioned - in Excel, although I've thought about moving to MSAccess.

I write down details at the casino (in the bathroom or the car) because my memory isn't what it used to be.

Basics for session play include:
casino by game type (each different game condition at one property gets it's own record) on property sheet, then tied to the playing records.
_ _ _ _ The property sheet details include the rules, penetration, table limits, general tolerance perceived, and more.
date
start stop time
buy/walk (net auto calc in Excel)
tips (My walk includes tips, so calcs adjust the true playing net with this value for play results)
spread
table number (casino's unique machine ID number if playing, say VP)
names of dealers
names of pit
heat
rated or not
notes about anything from rat-holing to comps to unusual situations being recognized to being ignored to coupons used to ... ...
hands/hr /
no. of other players.
wong points

After the fact, calc using CVCX and add to Excel:
_ SCORE
_ EV/hr (adjusted for speed recorded above)
_ EV for play (based on above x time)

Running totals of:
_ time
_ Actual Return
_ Actual $/hr
_ Above less tips, total tips and their percentage of both actual and EV
_ EV in $$
_ EV $/hr

Every table gets one entry. I note if I switch tables (same session).
Coupon play gets one entry for one play. EV based on cvData @ 60h/hr so I put in 1 min of time per hand played for calcs.
I have a separate sheet for all of my stores with entries for each of the three shifts. I keep track of how often, when, etc. each shift is visited.

All of the above broken into multiple sheets to make things more manageable when searching.
I use the Autofilter to see what I've won or lost at certain properties, over a certain period of time, to know what casinos think I've won or lost (rated), etc.

I also record all plays in my general financial software.

**AP2win** · 02-08-2013, 08:28 PM

I also split out any chips ratholed on a separate line (especially when rated) so that I can always review what the casino knows.

**moo321** · 02-11-2013, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Boz

Generally, it's not the law that anyone has to record a net loss.

Yes, it is. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p529.pdf

"Diary of winnings and losses. You must keep an accurate diary or similar record of your losses and winnings.
Your diary should contain at least the following information.

The date and type of your specific wager or wagering activity.
The name and address or location of the gambling es-tablishment.
The names of other persons present with you at the gambling establishment.
The amount(s) you won or lost. "

**Boz** · 02-12-2013, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by moo321

Yes, it is. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p529.pdf

"Diary of winnings and losses. You must keep an accurate diary or similar record of your losses and winnings.
Your diary should contain at least the following information.

The date and type of your specific wager or wagering activity.
The name and address or location of the gambling es-tablishment.
The names of other persons present with you at the gambling establishment.
The amount(s) you won or lost. "

I said 'generally' and 'anyone'. If u intend to claim a loss as a tax deduction, the law requires a record. That is considered an exception. Generally, gamblers are not net winners, so the exception does not apply. The exception also does not apply if a net winner opts to claim no deductions. You twice misstated the law. You copied elements of a sub-rule, ignoring that they exist under the context of a broader black-letter rule-Deductions. Not knowing precisely what the law is makes it impossible to even remotely analyze it correctly.

RS · 02-12-2013, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by AP2win

Just about everything you mentioned - in Excel, although I've thought about moving to MSAccess.I write down details at the casino (in the bathroom or the car) because my memory isn't what it used to be. Basics for session play include:casino by game type (each different game condition at one property gets it's own record) on property sheet, then tied to the playing records. _ _ _ _ The property sheet details include the rules, penetration, table limits, general tolerance perceived, and more.datestart stop timebuy/walk (net auto calc in Excel)tips (My walk includes tips, so calcs adjust the true playing net with this value for play results)spreadtable number (casino's unique machine ID number if playing, say VP)names of dealersnames of pitheatrated or notnotes about anything from rat-holing to comps to unusual situations being recognized to being ignored to coupons used to ... ...hands/hr / no. of other players.wong pointsAfter the fact, calc using CVCX and add to Excel: _ SCORE_ EV/hr (adjusted for speed recorded above)_ EV for play (based on above x time)Running totals of:_ time_ Actual Return_ Actual $/hr_ Above less tips, total tips and their percentage of both actual and EV_ EV in $$_ EV $/hrEvery table gets one entry. I note if I switch tables (same session).Coupon play gets one entry for one play. EV based on cvData @ 60h/hr so I put in 1 min of time per hand played for calcs.I have a separate sheet for all of my stores with entries for each of the three shifts. I keep track of how often, when, etc. each shift is visited.All of the above broken into multiple sheets to make things more manageable when searching.I use the Autofilter to see what I've won or lost at certain properties, over a certain period of time, to know what casinos think I've won or lost (rated), etc.I also record all plays in my general financial software.

Good stuff. I'm trying to think of a good way to keep my own records. I like the idea of using Excel, except I'm not that good with having it calculate stuff and functions in it. I was thinking of building an online widget/program/thing so I can keep my results in an online DB using MySQL, that way I can enter it directly from my smartphone. It would be easier (I think?) to calculate everything, especially since I could write a query to calculate something specifically (ie: calculate my net win/loss for the month of January, or calc win/loss for a specific casino over all time....or all DD games....or.....etc.)...since I think that'd get a bit difficult to do in Excel, especially since I hardly know how to use it. Plus, I don't like the idea of having to input everything manually in Excel, waiting till I get home (or to computer), or if my computer dies or lose the excel, etc. etc. One thing I do like is that you calculate your EV for every game you play alongside your actual result using CVCX.

**Zach Black** · 02-12-2013, 02:07 PM

RS, I email the result of each session to a separate email account from my phone then at the end of a trip will log into that account and update my excel spreadsheet from my computer.

I have a dropbox account that synchronizes files between my computers which I can access from my android phone also. So in theory I could update the excel spreadsheet from the casino with my phone and dropbox would update my computer files.. The dropbox account provides cloud storage/back-up of your files. The first 5g is free

**21forme** · 02-12-2013, 03:26 PM

One thing to remember - never record anything like this where an EITS is present. Do it in your car or in a bathroom.

**sagefr0g** · 02-12-2013, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by 21forme

One thing to remember - never record anything like this where an EITS is present. Do it in your car or in a bathroom.

well say you use your cellphone to record info, or maybe even look at info. well, in the casino, wouldn't holding your phone at a sufficient angle that the eis couldn't record it be sufficient?

**21forme** · 02-12-2013, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by sagefr0g

well say you use your cellphone to record info, or maybe even look at info. well, in the casino, wouldn't holding your phone at a sufficient angle that the eis couldn't record it be sufficient?

If they really want to see what you're putting in your cellphone, they can. Suppose you hold it vertically. They can use a camera 20 feet away to overcome the angle, and zoom in.

Also, there are places you need to be careful outside, as well. For example, in LV, MGM can follow you from Bellagio to MB, including on their trams, as they own that part of the Strip from one end to the other.