1. When you started playing - and once you learnt about RoR - at what level of RoR did you play?
2. At what RoR do you currently play?
3. If advising a newcomer on playing a dedicated $10K BR, what level would you recommend (leaving aside those ugly questions of personal risk tolerance, etc...assume the bankroll is fully at risk)?
I look forward to your opinions.
RG
When I first started playing, my RoR was astronomical. Before I discovered forums, software, and other helpful resources, I was very ignorant and naive. I guess you could say that I pretty much started on a “Hail Mary bankroll.” This approached worked for me and help me start an initial roll.Originally Posted by Red Green
1) After educating myself, my goal was to keep my RoR at 5% or less. Keep in mind that this wasn’t a difficult task though, because I didn’t properly educate myself until my bankroll grew to 30K+.
2) My current RoR today is always below 1%. In most case it’s around .7% or less (depending on game/DD is usually 0%). Although in the last few months, I’ve ran really well and I’ve decided to keep my stakes at the same level for now. My latest sim on CVCX for a 6D game I plan on playing shows that I have a 0% RoR (not really 0%, but probably 0.0xx%).
3) If your bankroll is easily replenishable, then I would say play with a higher risk (Full Kelly) IF you intend to commit to this endeavor. If the 10K is not replenishable (or not easy to do so), then my main focus would be play really good games, lots of back counting, and aggressively Wong out; even if it means facing some back offs. On a 10K bank, you’ll be playing lower stakes, so I say use ZERO cover. None. Don’t tip. I know this is very stereotypical of a card counter, but at this stage, bankroll survival is your main concern.
When I wasn't even sure if I'd like counting and decided to try it out, I played with a 7% RoR. I decided to give myself 5k to play with at a 5$ table and see if I liked it. RoR was not a large consideration at that point in time. Once I decided it was a hobby worth seriously perusing, I began playing with a 1% or less RoR.1. When you started playing - and once you learnt about RoR - at what level of RoR did you play?
I generally play at a 1% RoR, but a few of my plays are closer to 5%.2. At what RoR do you currently play?
[QUOTE]
If I had an un-replenishable 10k roll I would aim to get RoR as low as possible with the constraint of keeping $/hr above minimum wage. Simply because it feels dumb to do this for less than minimum wage to me.
I currently play @ around %15 with a smaller "un-replenishable" roll.
Thanks for the responsive answers.
(...lol...and this is how threads get side-tracked so quickly around here...) Moses, not sure what you mean by "threshold for tolerance"...are you implying you have an unlimited BR so you you don't care about RoR? If not, is your RoR 'calculation' done by gut feel?
For the rest of you, I still look forward to your responses on the OP.
fingers crossed,
RG
Interesting. I've posed the question this way to test my hypothesis that a 10K BR is not bullet proof and the lowest, best game I can get will yield 11.7% RoR on a 1-10 spread at 6D. Since this is a hobby and not a job that seemed a reasonable risk/reward balance. I haven't studied the pen available at the local DD game, but if it was deep (say 62% dealt), you could achieve comparable RoR and a higher hourly EV with a small increase in BR, which could be merely theoretical. I don't have unlimited funds, but I have high risk tolerance and adding $4k of theoretical BR is a playing decision, really. Not sure how local longevity might play as between $10 6D and $25DD. I am leaning to the 6D game as it would probably be a better place to test out the game in the short term.
As to the minimum wage comment, as a hobby, I don't really care that much. The goal is to build a BR where RoR is very, very low and EV becomes material. The early days are a means to that end.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Red Green, regarding longevity, I’d suggest reaching out to people who’ve played your local area and see what their experiences were like. I’d still approach my game fairly aggressively, even if it was local, but I’d target the most tolerant joint. But that’s just me. If your top bets will be less than $200, I think you can last a while almost anywhere, but some places are paranoid at almost any bet level.
Without networking, you’ll be testing tolerance limits on your own. You won’t know what the threshold is until you’ve crossed it. If you’re well below, then you’re probably leaving money on the table. If you’re over, you get the boot. Don’t be afraid to test the limits sometimes, but be cautious when you do.
If you don’t already own CVCX, consider purchasing it. It’ll make it a lot easier to map out a game plan. Find a RoR that you’re comfortable with and adjust your play to meet those requirements. As I stated earlier, my goal was to be at 5% or less when I first started. So I would just fiddle around with my spreads, unit size, penetration, game selection, and custom betting ramps on CVCX until I reached a desired RoR AND EV. The goal is always to keep a desired RoR without sacrificing too much EV at the same time. Find that perfect balance.
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