What about this card counting strategy?

[Saltynuts]

I noticed several of the level one systems are very similar. HiLo, REKO, Silver Fox. They all have either +1, -1, or 0 for each card. The betting correlation all seem pretty consistent/high. I noticed the only 0 that Silver Fox has is for 8. To make it simpler, what if I just made 8 +1?. That way when you are counting the cards, you can just have two bins, and can consider every 2 hand +2 except to the extent you see a 9/10 card/Ace. Presumably that won't make the count, now simplified, that much worse since other systems seem to deal with those middle cards differently in any event, and all are still very good. Thoughts? Sorry if this gets asked a lot, I'm definately a rookie.

Thanks!

[seriousplayer]

I noticed several of the level one systems are very similar. HiLo, REKO, Silver Fox. They all have either +1, -1, or 0 for each card. The betting correlation all seem pretty consistent/high. I noticed the only 0 that Silver Fox has is for 8. To make it simpler, what if I just made 8 +1?. That way when you are counting the cards, you can just have two bins, and can consider every 2 hand +2 except to the extent you see a 9/10 card/Ace. Presumably that won't make the count, now simplified, that much worse since other systems seem to deal with those middle cards differently in any event, and all are still very good. Thoughts? Sorry if this gets asked a lot, I'm definately a rookie.

Thanks!

The effect of removal for a card remove from a single deck game is

A=-.61
2=.38
3=.44
4=.55
5=.69
6=.46
7=.28
8=0
9=-.18
T=-.51

removing an 8 from the deck doesn't change the odds against us. Card counting are created based on the EOR principle. Assigning a value of +1 to 8 is not a good idea. To answer your question make the 8 +1 would drop the BC to .93, PE to .54 and IC will increase to .72 these numbers are rounded.

[Saltynuts]

removing an 8 from the deck doesn't change the odds against us. Card counting are created based on the EOR principle. Assigning a value of +1 to 8 is not a good idea. To answer your question make the 8 +1 would drop the BC to .93, PE to .54 and IC will increase to .72 these numbers are rounded.

Thanks seriousplayer. So, lets's look at that and compare to Silver Fox. Silver Fox is .96, .53 and .69 per this site: https://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm Isn't that not giving up much at all, to make the count simpler? And one side benefit is it might confuse the security more since it would be a system no one (presumably) or almost no one uses. Side note - what is EOR?

Thanks!

[seriousplayer]

Thanks seriousplayer. So, lets's look at that and compare to Silver Fox. Silver Fox is .96, .53 and .69 per this site: https://www.qfit.com/card-counting.htm Isn't that not giving up much at all, to make the count simpler? And one side benefit is it might confuse the security more since it would be a system no one (presumably) or almost no one uses. Side note - what is EOR?

Thanks!

Silver Fox

A= -1
1= 1
2= 1
3= 1
4= 1
5= 1
6= 1
7= 1
8= 0
9 = -1
T = -1

BC = .96, PE = .53, IC =.69

Silver Fox with 8 assigned as +1

A= -1
1= 1
2= 1
3= 1
4= 1
5= 1
6= 1
7= 1
8= 1
9 = -1
T = -1

BC = .93, PE =.54 IC =.72 all rounded

But if you are looking to side count 8s the BC, PE and IC would be different from you first post you were trying to make 8 as +1.

EOR is abbreviated as "effect of removal". Effect of removal is the mathematical impact of removing a single card from a deck of cards. How removing the single card would affect your advantage.

If you don't understand what BC, PE and IC are below is the definition.

BC is abbreviated of "Betting Correlation". Betting correlation in a card counting system calculates approximately the advantage the players have to increase and decrease their bet.

PE stands for Playing Effeciency". Playing efficiency calculates how closely a card counting system react to deviation from basic strategy.

IC is Insurance Correlation. Insurance Correlation show how accurate it is to bet on insurance.

[Saltynuts]

Silver Fox

A= -1
1= 1
2= 1
3= 1
4= 1
5= 1
6= 1
7= 1
8= 0
9 = -1
T = -1

BC = .96, PE = .53, IC =.69

Silver Fox with 8 assigned as +1

A= -1
1= 1
2= 1
3= 1
4= 1
5= 1
6= 1
7= 1
8= 1
9 = -1
T = -1

BC = .93, PE =.54 IC =.72 all rounded

Thanks! So with the 8 as +1, BC goes down a little, and the other two actually up a little. And you get a simplified count in my mind - all cards other than 9, 10s and As are +1. Am I missing anything? Thanks!

[seriousplayer]

Thanks! So with the 8 as +1, BC goes down a little, and the other two actually up a little. And you get a simplified count in my mind - all cards other than 9, 10s and As are +1. Am I missing anything? Thanks!

Yes, you need and IRC since the count is an unbalanced count. If you must you this system I would suggest that you count every red or black 8s but not all the black and red 8. This will also improve you BC to .95 but the IC drop to .71. The PE will increase to .55.

[Freightman]

Yes, you need and IRC since the count is an unbalanced count. If you must you this system I would suggest that you count every red or black 8s but not all the black and red 8. This will also improve you BC to .95 but the IC drop to .71. The PE will increase to .55.

And a new system is born - the Black 8

[Saltynuts]

And a new system is born - the Black 8

LOL! I wan't partial credit.



Seriousplayer, what is an IRC? Thanks!

[seriousplayer]

LOL! I wan't partial credit.



Seriousplayer, what is an IRC? Thanks!

IRC is the initial running count. It is where your count starts off at. For balanced count the IRC is 0 but for unbalanced count the IRC is usually negative.

[Three]

Isn't that not giving up much at all, to make the count simpler?

How is counting 1 more card making a count simpler? It also makes the count unbalanced. There is nothing wrong with unbalanced counts but many consciously choose not to use them.

[Saltynuts]

How is counting 1 more card making a count simpler? It also makes the count unbalanced. There is nothing wrong with unbalanced counts but many consciously choose not to use them.

So, if you just make the +8 a +1, now you only have two buckets, -1 and +1, not 3 because you have no zero. Two buckets instead of three would seem to make it easier in and of itself. However, it seems it would get even easier because now you can just count every card that comes out, scan for the 9/10s/As, and know that that latter number is your total negative point total. Then your total positive/negative point total has to be that number added (as a negative) to the total cards that have come out! And it seems to me just making a count of every card that comes out is easier than trying to determine which one is a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

Seems to me it would be a lot easier without giving up much.

[Three]

So, if you just make the +8 a +1, now you only have two buckets, -1 and +1, not 3 because you have no zero. Two buckets instead of three would seem to make it easier in and of itself.

What you did was make a card you ignore altogether and make you have to be concerned about it. That doesn't make your job easier. Taking the concept to the extreme you have the easiest count I am aware of, the A/5 out. You ignore all cards except the ace and 5. So counting down a deck goes from counting 52 cards if you count them all to 8 cards.

And it seems to me just making a count of every card that comes out is easier than trying to determine which one is a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

You still have to determine which card is a 2-8 and which are a 9-A. That is accounting for every card. Neutral cards are not even noticed once you are proficient at your count. One day you will get there with a count and understand. You don't even think anymore. The count just happens in your head without conscious effort.

Seems to me it would be a lot easier without giving up much.

Everyone is different. Do what is easiest for you. Or develop the skills to do what doesn't seem easy yet if the effort is worth it. It usually is at some point. You can't have too many skills. I think most would find your statement that eliminating neutral cards makes counting easier to ridiculous. But they aren't you.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Saltynuts,

............. Study stronger counts, e.g. Hi-Opt II

...........