BC vs PE

[Gramazeka]

I think Fenix has said she does this, with HOII.

So let her answer in this thread.

[refinery]

So let her answer in this thread.

I'm not sure what the problem is. It was a perfectly polite response referencing something said many times in public threads. So she can respond or not.

[Bubbles]

Do I understand correctly that you do this only theoretically? I once was told about good trackers that use Omega 2 - I laughed )) I could not get an answer-how they insert aces in broken slug ?

I think hilo would work best for the harder shuffle tracking stuff. I mostly attack super easy shuffles where that's not an issue. I still need to read that shuffle tracking book.

When dealing with aces and broken slugs, I imagine you'd calculate the expected TC of the section twice, once with the bet count and once with the playing.

I don't see the issue either? I've stated I like to shuffle track and I use hiopt2. Most of the places I play are ASM, so I don't get the opportunity to track too often. I've also been lucky in finding very easy to track shuffles in a few places. Between the two, I haven't been very motivated to learn how to track harder shuffles due to how infrequently I see them.

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[Gramazeka]

You want to say that in simple shuffle you know exactly the number of Aces and Tens in slug ? And if the dealer broke it? How do you do the calculations ?

But this is not tracking. This is pseudo-tracking.

[Bubbles]

Well then I will pseudo track all the way to the bank. No I don't know the exact number of tens, but I know what I expect the count to be. Either I remember the count of the bit it's married to, or I use the average of the remaining decks. Obviously if I know the count of both, I know the count of them combined. The exact composition of tens is irrelevant.

Furthermore, how do you know the exact number of tens? What if you are using the ending count with hilo? How do you know the composition of middle cards? It may have less middle cards, meaning more tens and low than expected. In this situation you don't know the exact number either, only the count of the section. Do you never use that section to track, even if you end with a count far from 0 because you don't know the exact number of faces? I could only see knowing exactly if you are tracking two sections you know will be put together and both sections are played through.

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[Three]

Mr. G. The chart indicates Halves is clearly the top performer. Correct?

No. The top performer is used as the 100% benchmark and that is the green line, Hiopt2/ASC. All other counts are what percentage of Hiopt2/ASC results that they perform at.

[Gramazeka]

The exact composition of tens is irrelevant.

The exact composition of tens + Aces is irrelevant in Hi Lo ! In Hi Opt 2- the opposite is true. How do you play hands using ST ( Specifically ASC ) ? It's hard for me to imagine how the formulas in your head are rustling. ))

[Bubbles]

The exact composition of tens + Aces is irrelevant in Hi Lo ! In Hi Opt 2- the opposite is true. How do you play hands using ST ( Specifically ASC ) ? It's hard for me to imagine how the formulas in your head are rustling. ))

OK, I'll try to explain what happens in my head. Let's say I already know the shuffle and which sections to note. I play until the start of the grab A and note the count. I play until the end of the grab and again note the count. It's a full deck's worth. I saw 4 aces and the running count went from +8 to +3. Grab A is neutral in aces and has a count of +5 (or -5, however you want to look at it. The count dropped, so it's high in 10's. If it had gone from +3 to +8 I would consider this -5 in my head. Might not make sense, but the sign change is important later. I prefer to do it here.)

Then I play thorough the remainder until I get to grab B. Let's say grab B had only 2 aces and is one deck thick. The start of it my RC was +11 and ends at 0.

The shuffle happens and A gets mixed with B. A+B is two decks thick, has 6 aces and a total count of +16 (5+11). I cut that to the front and play thorough it as if the play count is +8 and the bet count is +6 (aces are worth 2 and it's deficit 2 aces. 5+11+(2*-2)=12).

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[Gramazeka]

OK, I'll try to explain what happens in my head. Let's say I already know the shuffle and which sections to note. I play until the start of the grab A and note the count. I play until the end of the grab and again note the count. It's a full deck's worth. I saw 4 aces and the running count went from +8 to +3. Grab A is neutral in aces and has a count of +5 (or -5, however you want to look at it. The count dropped, so it's high in 10's. If it had gone from +3 to +8 I would consider this -5 in my head. Might not make sense, but the sign change is important later. I prefer to do it here.)

Then I play thorough the remainder until I get to grab B. Let's say grab B had only 2 aces and is one deck thick. The start of it my RC was +11 and ends at 0.

The shuffle happens and A gets mixed with B. A+B is two decks thick, has 6 aces and a total count of +16 (5+11). I cut that to the front and play thorough it as if the play count is +8 and the bet count is +6 (aces are worth 2 and it's deficit 2 aces. 5+11+(2*-2)=12).

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Thank you very much for your answer. It's really hard for you all to provoke interesting discussions )) Well, well, well. Your answer stems from the simplest formula for ST. I'll try to complicate the task a little bit ))- You have slug with 26 cards, in which 4 Aces and 4 tens ( surplus ), which is mixed with zero count slug ( size 26 cards ). When shuffling, the dealer breaks your perceived slug in half = totals 13 +26 cards . My question-where tens and where are the aces? How does this fit into the formula? And how do we get an excellent PE and IC with the best system Hi Opt 2 ?

p.s. Someone, who does not understand the subject of conversation, has put your previous post on the plus.

[Bubbles]

Which one is broken in half?

I haven't read too much on shuffle tracking, but this is how I'd handle it. I'm not an expert. I'm assuming aces are otherwise neutral aside from the 4 mentioned. In 26 cards, 2 aces are expected to be seen. My tag for 10s is -2.

Grab A = 6 aces and RC +8 (or -8 depending on when you flip it)
Grab B = 2 aces and RC 0

A+B = 8 aces and RC +8
A+B is 1D. Playing count of +8, bet count of +16

A+B gets cut in half. Both half's I'd play with +8 playing and +16 betting.

Or did you mean grab A is cut in half? Silently curse the dealer, accept defeat, and try to cut what's left to the middle of the shoe so I can count it.

That really doesn't answer the question though. I suppose I could assume the cards in grab A were evenly distributed. They may or may not be, which would make me not want to do this, but eventually over time they should even out that way.

1/2 grab A = 3 aces and RC +4
grab B = 2 aces RC 0
A/2 + B = 5 aces RC +4 comprising 39 cards
Playing count +5.3 betting +7.3


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[Three]

And how do we get an excellent PE and IC with the best system Hi Opt 2 ?

So your issue is you do all this extra effort, which to a practiced player is no extra effort, and the PE and IC is reduced to around that of Hilo. I get your point and I am no ST expert.

[Bubbles]

Would it be better to use hilo to shuffle track? Sure, but I'm not going to learn a whole new count. I do my best with what I've got. I like to keep it simple and hi-opt2 all the things. I can still fairly effectively track some very easy shuffles imo. I'll leave y'all to the harder ones.

[Ustonzen]

Would it be better to use hilo to shuffle track? Sure, but I'm not going to learn a whole new count. I do my best with what I've got. I like to keep it simple and hi-opt2 all the things. I can still fairly effectively track some very easy shuffles imo. I'll leave y'all to the harder ones.

You use hi opt2 for shoes? How is the ace side count on your mental reserves?