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Thread: FELT-F Splitting nines idices, betting ramps, risk of ruin

  1. #1


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    FELT-F Splitting nines idices, betting ramps, risk of ruin

    I'm sure this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it with a few searches, so I'll just ask: what are the correct indices for splitting nines (Spilt DAS) using FELT-Full? Online on QFIT, it says -7, -9 vs 2, 3, respectively, but in Modern Blackjack, it says -6, -8. (See page 281.)

    I bought the full book as a Christmas present to myself. Are there any other errors/discrepancies between the book and online that I should know about regarding FELT?

    I'm also wondering about the betting ramp I should be using. At $5-100 limits, I've been using 5/20/30...90 for +1/+2/+3...+9 and above. I think i got it from the Ben Franklin count. After seeing some tables of advantage at various counts, betting 20 at +2 is living a bit dangerously for my limited bankroll when the advantage is practically nothing. The variance has gotten me many times before at low counts. I typically play 6D, H17, DAS. Is there a way to calculate my Risk of Ruin on my own using various betting ramps so I can adjust it as my bankroll grows?

    Just to make sure everything gets answered...
    A. Proper indices?
    B. Errors/discrepancies?
    C. Betting ramps?
    D. Calculating RoR?

    Post-script:
    I was worried when on page 4 of the book the word "great" was used instead of "greet," but after further reading, it's a fantastic book. Then again, I haven't tried to read an entire book since junior high, so what do I know.

  2. #2


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    "I was worried when on page 4 of the book the word "great" was used instead of "greet,"

    Just checked all of page 4 and couldn't find that. Can you quote the sentence, please?

    Don

  3. #3
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    I can.

    Nowadays, the tintinnabulation of the slot machines greats you in the airport and stays with you until you leave
    For OP, Brett Harris Formula is wrong.

    Brett Harris has simplified this formula to TC=RC/decks unplayed-4.
    but it's not about FELT

  4. #4


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    Thanks. One that I missed the first time around. Sigh.

    Don

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    I still need at least clarification on the FELT-F Split DAS indexes

    I changed the layout here to make things a bit clearer. All indexes are split if greater than or equal to the index. Which indexes are correct for Felt-Full, 6D, DAS?

    In the actual text book Modern Blackjack, Second Edition (that you can hold in your hands)...
    PAGE 281, the bottom chart
    Split DAS
    9,9 vs 2...3...Ace
    .........-6..-8....4

    4,4 vs 4....5.....6
    ....... +8...-2...-11

    In the online book located here: https://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage261.htm
    PAGE 261
    Split DAS
    9,9 vs 2....3....Ace
    .........-7..-9....+4

    4,4 vs 4....5....6 (Same indexes as above)
    ........+8..-2..-11

    On the Casino Verite app for Android, it says...
    Split (Note that the settings I put in say Split DAS, but the app just says "Split")
    9,9 vs 2....3....Ace
    .........-5..-7....+8

    4,4 vs 4....5....6 (Different indexes than the two above)
    .......+10..-2...-6

    The Casino Verite app also adds an index for splitting 7s that the other two don't have:
    7, 7 vs 8
    .........+5

    One last index not given on the app, but not elsewhere:
    Surrender
    7,7 vs 8
    ........+5

    These are all supposed to be the same, but in some cases there are THREE DIFFERENT INDEXES!!! So, which indexes are correct for splitting 9s, 4s, 7s, and surrendering 7s in Felt-Full, 6D, DAS?
    Last edited by FormerFeeler; 01-15-2018 at 02:11 PM.

  6. #6


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    The bottom line is the indexes will vary based on how they are generated. Mine are generated from how I calculate my true count with RA checked. I'm not going to go through and correct or verify them all, but a couple stand out.

    Surrender 7,7 v 8 at +19 (not 5). Surrender 7,7 v 10 at +5.

    Split 7,7 vs 8 at +21 (not 5).

  7. #7


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    @FormerFeeler

    Split 7.7 vs 5 @ 5 is EV maximizing, Not RA.

    I think these are all generally "Correct" (with the exception of surrender 77 v 8 @ 5 ) but each index with a lower number for splits is EV maximizing, and the the corresponding higher alternative number you're seeing is RA.

    So you'd want to use these:

    On the Casino Verite app for Android, it says...
    Split (Note that the settings I put in say Split DAS, but the app just says "Split")
    9,9 vs 2....3....Ace
    .........-5..-7....+8

    4,4 vs 4....5....6 (Different indexes than the two above)
    .......+10..-2...-6

    Surrender 7,7 v 8 at +19 (not 5)

    Split 7,7 vs 8 at +21 (not 5)
    Though the difference is likely minimal considering the frequency.

    I definitely understand your frustration though as I quit when I first started trying to learn Hi-Lo because of index discrepancies between the different material I had.
    Last edited by sbrugby; 01-15-2018 at 08:05 PM.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by therefinery View Post
    I calculate my true count with RA checked. I'm not going to go through and correct or verify them all, but a couple stand out.

    Surrender 7,7 v 8 at +19 (not 5). Surrender 7,7 v 10 at +5.

    Split 7,7 vs 8 at +21 (not 5).
    "RA" means risk averse, I'm guessing? I have no RSA (resplit aces). I just have the phone app, and I don't see anywhere to check that box. Are you referring to the big Casino Verite program that calculates basically everything?

    Also, on my phone app, I set it to TC Resolution and Last Deck Resolution both to half deck. TC division is floored. Remaining cards are by cards in tray (but that shouldn't matter, right?)

  9. #9


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    "RA" means risk averse, I'm guessing?
    Yes risk averse. You don't check it in the app, it's for CVData index calculation.

    TC Resolution and Last Deck Resolution both to half deck.
    It won't change the indices in the chart, but it will make them under-perform because the FELT-F indexes were generated at full deck resolution. You always want to use the resolution your indexes were generated with for best results.

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