New player: can I make decent money learning to count in 2017?

[Mr.Jones]

Hi guys, small introduction.

I'm 32 years old and have been playing live poker in casino's on and off since 2004, but never put in enough work to be a real winner.
Fundamentally I've always been strong, I just suffer from tilt issues.

(yes I understand you can tilt in blackjack as well but I feel
like I'd be able to reset faster and play more robotically)

I've always stayed away from the table games / slots, and just played live poker. Maybe I'd make a fun bet here and there, but since day 1 at the casino, I've always known you can't beat them and I've stayed away.

Which brings us to blackjack. Is it worth learning how to count cards in 2017, and all the
intricacies associated with being successful at the game?

I'm not talking about just reading a book and increasing my edge while betting for fun, but I'm
talking seriously learning the game, practicing with software, and putting in the work.

I already have a strong math and acting back round.

Can I make a living doing this? Or atleast provide a good amount of supplemental income?

Thanks.

[weballinoutacontro]

depends on how you define "decent." definitely more $ in poker. I've never heard of anyone around here or other forums sustaining mid 6 figure income from BJ, which is what I would need to consider it a "decent" full-time professions.

OTOH, as a side-hustle to make a little extra beer money, sure. I enjoy playing BJ a lot more than sitting at my desk job

[Mr.Jones]

Best to use it as a secondary source of income. If you get really good you can make a living counting BJ but there are a lot of other opportunities in the casino.

Other opportunities? Any quick examples?

Also: other than gambling with an edge, any good blackjack / ap podcast out there?

[blueman]

Learn to count. Then mix blackjack with poker. Youll get the best of both worlds, get tired of one for a bit then play the other. Ive been doing this the past couple years and its great. (Although the first few sessions back to poker after a bj trip can be really boring)

[blueman]

You can still make a lot of money from casinos now adays playing bj. But you have to travel. If you dont feel like traveling or your face is hot then play poker. Ive made well into the 6 figures in my bj span and have only been backed off of 30 to 40 joints. I expect to make well into the 7 figures before i done with blackjack, if i ever am done lol

[mcallister3200]

In my opinion I really doubt that someone who's either unable or unwilling to overcome tilt issues in poker would be able to sustain a winning blackjack game and manage their bankroll properly for more than red to light green play. Math skills are nearly irrelevant for card counting, if you have to figure out things that are unpublished math skills are very helpful but card counting math is very simple stuff. I know of someone who failed or claims to have failed high school math (likely an effort thing) who has been playing for a living for some time.

If you do decide to pursue it Id recommend mastering one skill and make sure you are a winner before trying to learn eight different ways to beat a casino. Yes the most talented and best AP's have many tools, but for many people of normal abilities who are successful in any venture it's because they choose to be exceptional at one or two things than try to be merely adequate at many things.

[blueman]

That brings up an interesting topic t3.. can an ap make consistently good money doing ap plays other than poker and bj? Like i know how to beat bj, some machines, uth, hold em bonus, 3cp, stud games, and even baccarat. I typically go into a casino for either poker or bj but ill do a scout of all of these other games first. I usually dont find much of anything. But then when i do it can be extremely profitable. Seems very hit or miss, how can an ap thrive without the core games (poker/bj)?

[blueman]

Like i definitely see scraping up good chunks when the opportunity arises, ive done so, but personally havent seen conditions to thrive

[lij45o6]

Tilt issues will certainly hurt you, if not ruin you.

Blackjack, unlike Poker, is more variant. Think of all the bad beats you got in poker, all the losing sessions you had. Now, take the sum of all those experiences and multiply them by an order of magnitude. You *WILL* go ape-shit when you have a TC +10 and the dealer keeps beating your 19's and doubled 20's. Think losing 200 dollars of your hard-earned cash, a hand, per round, for a single shoe sounds like fun? Blackjack is your game. Otherwise, stick to poker and learn to control your anger.

Others are right when there are other opportunities. With Vegas spreading 6:5 on a natural, H17 6/8 deckers with ~60-70% penetration across the nation, and the overall heat of playing correctly, you will learn to hate the game. Dice control would be something that would be a truly academic exercise. No one that I am aware of can control dice to levels of precision down to the quantum level. Only system sellers make money off of this scheme. Same goes with clocking roulette. (No computers, please!)

Gaming promotions, freebies offered under casino coupons, and some table game side bets are where you could start looking at.

If you think counting is for you, there are some here that...while they come off as harsh and rude/mean...they do mean well. I can vouch for some when it comes to training and offering advise. That is dependent on whether you are willing to be trained and are willing to accept advise contrary to the lay populace.

If you still think counting is for you, I can forward your email to some of my peeps. They will vet you first, and then put you on the pathway towards success...if willing.

[bchico]

I'm almost in the same boat. Same age range, poker, etc but have a full time job that affords me some leisure time and extra cash.
I've been playing BJ since day 1 of entering casinos. I've started on a path to learn to count. Not just for extra cash but as a challenge.
I recommend first thing buying Norms software. CV is amazing. I thought I knew basic strategy!
I practice a lot on the software then pop into a casino and test myself. I've noticed a huge improvement.
Once basic strategy becomes second nature I'll start practicing with a count.
Keep us posted. It's interesting to see updates from someone in my same position.


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[marriedputter]

Hi guys, small introduction.

I'm 32 years old and have been playing live poker in casino's on and off since 2004, but never put in enough work to be a real winner.
Fundamentally I've always been strong, I just suffer from tilt issues.

Super duper red flag here. This game will beat you down into a bloody puddle at times. I lost $10,000 in a week recently. Can you handle that? I admit, it definitely affected me emotionally, but I did not falter in my game. I continued to do what appeared to be insanity (you know, the same thing over and over) even though it was the correct thing to do. The dealers probably thought I was nuts. I lost a total of $11,659 for the month of August, which is a personal record for me.
Let me set the scene for you on a session. I was playing at a 6D table and had the most perfect circumstances you could possibly ask for. I was alone and the count went super high after about 1D. It was one of those shoes where you knew that your max bet would be out there the whole shoe. I bet accordingly. I set a personal record for the most hands lost in a row. I didn't count how many hands I lost obviously, but I just couldn't win a hand for the longest time so I knew that it was the most.
Into my pocket I go. I was properly bankrolled for the occasion, but funds were starting to disappear quickly. I finally managed to win a few hands and got part of it back. But the non-stop losing was getting to me. On one hand, I got a 16 against a dealer 9. In frustration, I literally stood up from the table quickly and turned my back to the table for a quick moment. I then returned and said to the dealer that I had never in my life lost so many hands in a row, which was quite true. I could tell that he sympathized with my "bad luck." It was awful and my irritation was real, but I didn't let if affect my playing. I did suspect for a moment that maybe my count was somehow off. I just couldn't understand why the count was so high and didn't come down. By the time the dealer got to the cut card, the RC had gone negative somewhat. This told me that I was indeed playing with an advantage and was likely counting accurately. Clearly though it was not my night. To make matters worse, I am now in OSN (though not from that particular session nor casino). Sometimes, when it rains, it pours.
So, can you handle that? This isn't for the faint of heart and certainly not for anybody that has tilt issues.

[blueman]

As weird as this sounds... i used to have bad tilt issues with poker losses. Once i started card counting and taking 5 figure swings daily, i became less tilted. I played bad at poker on tilt, blackjack i always played my game. And now i tilt less in poker!

[Mr.Jones]

So, can you handle that? This isn't for the faint of heart and certainly not for anybody that has tilt issues.

I've been one outted in $10,000 pots. I have thousands and thousands of hands of pot limit Omaha under my belt (much higher variance than hold'em) I am very comfortable and accustomed to variance.

Bad beats don't tilt me (unless they came from a player I dislike) On the contrary they make me happy because I know I made the correct EV play. My tilt issues generally aren't bad beat related.

The point is, I believe tilt will be much easier to control in blackjack. You make the most +EV play, simple. Over and over and over. Even if that includes a short term -EV play for camouflage.

You don't have to deal with the same type of psychological elements you can experience in poker. Example: playing hands you'd normally fold because you want to bust a loud mouthed donk who just sucked out on you, instead of keeping your cool.

Or making a bad read, and losing a chunk of your stack. Then dwelling on that decision, instead of resetting.

I believe blackjack is a game better suited for me because it will allow me in essence to play like a robot.