Advice needed on playing rated and longevity in local casinos

**ZeeBabar** · 08-06-2017, 07:05 AM

Last week I moved into this town with about 5 casinos within a 40 minute drive. Only two with DD games I like and one with 6 deck game with good pen. I used to live further away, come a couple of times a month to play here, used to go to MS more often (the drive was about 4-5 hours to both, MS and this town.

Now that I am here, always played rated, I am often tempted to go play every day for a short session (45 minutes). The problem is how to avoid counter measures and sustain longevity.

since they record my visits, I wonder if there is any point in playing different shifts. I mean, you go play in the evening but they probably can see that you were there 6 hours earlier and walked away with $400 and won another $200 the day before etc. They all know me so playing unrated is impossible.

I just moved to this town on the 1st. I played in two casinos. The result was

August 2, Plus $850. 1hr.
August 3. Plus. $35. 45 min.
August 5th, Plus $180. 30 minutes
Plus $420. 15 minutes

This is just good variance, there will be times when I am down. Do I intentionally book losses? Do I resist and play less often? How do I manage longevity? What strategies might I use?

I just don't want to lose the casinos a month after I moved into town!

**ZeeBabar** · 08-06-2017, 09:28 AM

All good points, T3. However, I wonder what they see when I hand over my card and let them log in. Since I play at quiet times, sometimes they take a while to return my card and they seem to stare at the monitor. Do they see my last X sessions? If they do, they may see a series of wins. Moreover, if they have play recorded automatically, couod someone winning 4-5 sessions in a row mean they could rewind and check if a player is counting?

**Freightman** · 08-06-2017, 10:04 AM

3
Nice post

Zee
Dont sweat it. An eits analysis of your play will determine e thT you're not a threat. You don't spread enough, your basic is sub par, and you're often afraid to make he proper decision.

As a general rule, neve book a loss on purpose. It's okay to lose some hands on purpose, deoending on situation. Having said that, for the first time in my memory, I purposely lost a session yesterday. I overcame an in the soup $3500 buy in with a monster shoe that put me up a few dollars. I played into the next shoe, literally losing my modest profit, creating a small loss. I look at it as investment, however, I caught attention and the future dividends do remain unclear. You need not concern yourself with those philosophies.

Reread 3's post. He makes some very valuable suggestions which pertain to your situation.

**Bubbles** · 08-06-2017, 01:10 PM

I suggest polite spreads. Be pleasant and useful. Leave at the conclusion of a shoe when you are modestly up or down. Try not to book large losses or wins, but don't compromise your play to do so. They realise anything can happen within a shoe, but what you do after matters. I agree that your play, when evaluated, may very well be deemed not a threat.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 08-06-2017, 04:59 PM

moses,

It has been years ~ and you are still imagining that making weird plays
will get you 86'd. You have been told by me, and by several others that
your position on this ploy is utterly false.The essential opposite is correct.

**Banker** · 08-06-2017, 05:27 PM

Please stop calling Zee a doctor. He never claimed he was. He just said "the pit boss probably thinks I am doctor"

Now regarding index plays. Pit persons and surveillance get trained on monitoring deviation from basic strategy and they do enter these deviation in their analysis. The only caveat is most of them are not good enough to figure out what is dumb play from deviation. The exceptions are taking insurance and splitting 10s. They can pick on these two pretty quickly. In general, I would agree not to worry about that issue except for not splitting 10s.

I think moving a family to a town for casino purpose, if that assumption is true ( as it could be coincidence) is probably good reason to think seriously about seeking help for gambling addition, even for a winning AP player.

**BJGenius007** · 08-06-2017, 06:08 PM

Never get rated. I have a friend that played at local $5 table and told never played BJ again because surveillance confirmed he is counting, even very modestly. His max bet is only $45. He made a lot of money as a programmer/system analyst. Playing BJ is just a hobby. But casino doesn't look that way. Counting is counting.

**ZeeBabar** · 08-06-2017, 07:17 PM

First, I did not move to play in casinos. I retired from my job located near a one casino small town and my wife felt that we needed to move to a bigger city where there are more options (malls, theatres, community etc.). Our first choice was music city which had no casinos within 3 hours. I started taking short trips to MS and MO with one or two to alas Vegas. However, high schools in the area were not good and we missed family in MO. So, we decided to move to a big city in MO. It's where I started living as of this month. The moves had nothing to do with casinos though I felt that I could control myself easily if casinos were not close by.

Now I am back to a big city with casinos. I am a much better player now than when I started (and had obtained Players cars) and in the first 5 days,, 5 sessions totaling 3 hours, I won $850, $35, $180, $420 and $600 at two casinos. I expressed my fear in the OP that I will lose these casinos and was trying to figure out whether it makes any difference playing short sessions as they are recording my wins and trying to figure out how I should manage these 5 casinos. My thought is to not visit the two casinos I played in over the past 6 days, hit the other two with tougher games for me ((6deck) and take short trips and perhaps develop a rotation strategy. The problem is that in the local casinos I play rated. I had been accepted because I was a poor player 2-3 years ago but now, I am wondering how to keep them from realizing that I do much better these days.

**Midwest Player** · 08-06-2017, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

First, I did not move to play in casinos. I retired from my job located near a one casino small town and my wife felt that we needed to move to a bigger city where there are more options (malls, theatres, community etc.). Our first choice was music city which had no casinos within 3 hours. I started taking short trips to MS and MO with one or two to alas Vegas. However, high schools in the area were not good and we missed family in MO. So, we decided to move to a big city in MO. It's where I started living as of this month. The moves had nothing to do with casinos though I felt that I could control myself easily if casinos were not close by.

Now I am back to a big city with casinos. I am a much better player now than when I started (and had obtained Players cars) and in the first 5 days,, 5 sessions totaling 3 hours, I won $850, $35, $180, $420 and $600 at two casinos. I expressed my fear in the OP that I will lose these casinos and was trying to figure out whether it makes any difference playing short sessions as they are recording my wins and trying to figure out how I should manage these 5 casinos. My thought is to not visit the two casinos I played in over the past 6 days, hit the other two with tougher games for me ((6deck) and take short trips and perhaps develop a rotation strategy. The problem is that in the local casinos I play rated. I had been accepted because I was a poor player 2-3 years ago but now, I am wondering how to keep them from realizing that I do much better these days.

Zee, I thought MO casinos can't bar card counters. What are you worried about?

**Freightman** · 08-08-2017, 09:52 AM

One last point regarding above post. As much as I can cater to it, I choose accommodation central to my playing circle, so that travel time for mid day rest, if needed, is not to far. I also chose accomidation so as not to stay in shit holes and tougher neighbourhood type places. Family p,aces are usually okay.

**Bubbles** · 08-08-2017, 11:46 AM

Sometimes I plan stuff, sometimes I just wing it. My better stories come from just winging it. I've slept in some interesting places. One time I went on a trip and I didn't know which state I was going to nor where I would be sleeping once I arrived. One place I slept came complete with complementary cop cars and shady looking folks lurking in the shadows out front. They were nice and bid me good morning. I have also learned the back seat of my car is not as comfortable as it looks. Park near a bathroom.

When involving other people, or more expense than a tank or two of gas, I've found it is best to actually plan stuff. Not that I do. I still refuse to tell my friends ahead of time if I am coming to town. I don't know if I am coming to town until I am there. Even then, I don't know when I am leaving. That takes, like, planning and stuff. Boo.

I also sometimes plan everything. EVERYTHING. Just like my mother. As if I'm trying to control something. Every minutiae of the trip painstakingly planned. Planned as if to set up purposeful boundaries to feel safe inside under the pretense of efficiency. Such detail cocooned itineraries become brittle and crumble under the first unaccounted for traffic jam.

Disclaimer: Fenix is drunk.

**Ryemo** · 08-09-2017, 04:44 AM

I'd like to point out a few fun facts regarding this thread:

1) This thread is 77 posts long (78 after this) and Moses' posts can account for 31 of them. That's roughly 40%.

2) Zee, this is probably the 1,000th time you've asked this question, or something similar to it. Do you suffer from memory problems?

3) I know where you're playing/living now, Zee. I built my bankroll there. This place is VERY OSN active! Trust me. IF you're a winning player and you play rated, your name and mug will be in OSN soon enough, no matter how good you think your act is. It's just a matter of time. If you are not a winning player, then you'll probably be able to play unmolested (as usual), you'll avoid getting databased, you'll continue to post the same stupid questions year after year, and Moses will account for 40% of those threads too.

**ZeeBabar** · 08-09-2017, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ryemo

I'd like to point out a few fun facts regarding this thread:

1) This thread is 77 posts long (78 after this) and Moses' posts can account for 31 of them. That's roughly 40%.

2) Zee, this is probably the 1,000th time you've asked this question, or something similar to it. Do you suffer from memory problems?

3) I know where you're playing/living now, Zee. I built my bankroll there. This place is VERY OSN active! Trust me. IF you're a winning player and you play rated, your name and mug will be in OSN soon enough, no matter how good you think your act is. It's just a matter of time. If you are not a winning player, then you'll probably be able to play unmolested (as usual), you'll avoid getting databased, you'll continue to post the same stupid questions year after year, and Moses will account for 40% of those threads too.

Ryemo:

I posted the question (and yes I had posted it before). The advice has always been to play unrated and it has been given by people who have not played rated in decades. There are far more people who play rated these days and small winners such as me, perhaps taking $3k over a year from a casino, are tolerated or ignored. After all it's only about $400 a month. Some pit guys joke that they rarely see me lose and I often respond that I do win more often but I lose bigger amounts when I do lose. In any case, I do post to hear from other more recent players.

Second, as you can see, even a repeat post ends up in a long long thread so the interest still exists. Also, my posts have helped keep action on this forum. Another forum where rude pros reside is almost dead because, unlike you, they have been nasty.

Finally, I like Moses and the rest keeping threads alive. If it bothers you, just ignore those threads.