Fast sim house edge zee type game

**Freightman** · 08-03-2017, 05:44 PM

Away from home. Used to be a real good game. Only game available is dd, double 9,10,11 only. Nsr,das,nrsa

1.house edge.
2. Score plus optimal 25-250 and 25-500.. spread no problem, I think. Dinner time.

**Freightman** · 08-03-2017, 06:25 PM

Should add centre cut. Either this or the crowded 6 deck 5-10 game

**refinery** · 08-03-2017, 07:09 PM

H17 or S17? The tables below are H17.

No idea if this is right. What is centercut? 50% pen? Looks pretty shitty. I used FELT-F for the model. You didn't say what counting system.

	Count Freq.	Win/ Loss	EV	Standard Deviation	Optimal Bets	Custom
Count	Count Freq.	Win/ Loss	Std. Error	Standard Deviation	Exact	Bets
<=-1	38.89%	-1.72%	0.03	1.13	1	25
0	26.79%	-0.63%	0.03	1.13	1	25
1	6.39%	-0.22%	0.07	1.129	1	25
2	5.51%	-0.16%	0.07	1.128	1	25
3	4.49%	0.36%	0.08	1.127	4.59	50
4	3.52%	0.48%	0.09	1.126	6.11	125
5	2.73%	0.67%	0.11	1.126	8.49	200
6	2.13%	0.74%	0.12	1.126	9.39	200
7	1.69%	0.83%	0.13	1.127	10	250
8	1.39%	0.89%	0.15	1.129	10	250
9	1.16%	1.12%	0.16	1.129	10	250
10	0.98%	1.48%	0.18	1.131	10	250
11	0.83%	2.12%	0.19	1.134	10	250
12	0.71%	2.15%	0.21	1.136	10	250
13	0.59%	2.20%	0.23	1.15	10	250
14	0.48%	2.71%	0.25	1.149	10	250
15	0.39%	3.22%	0.28	1.159	10	250
16	0.32%	2.91%	0.31	1.164	10	250
>=17	1.00%	4.02%	0.17	1.17	10	250
	Average Bet	Results	Results	Results	Std Dev	Std Dev	Risk of Ruin	Perform	Perform	Perform	Perform	Rounds	Std Err	Std Err	Std Err
Bets	Average Bet	%W/L	Win/Rnd	Win/Hour	Round	Hour	Risk of Ruin	DI	SCORE	CE	CE/WR	N0	%W/L	Win/Hour	SCORE
Optimal	$59.64	0.54%	$0.32	$31.96	$108.01	$1,080.12	17.30%	2.96	8.76	($4.49)	-0.14	114,182	0.03	$1.94	1.06
Custom	$59.64	0.54%	$0.32	$31.96	$108.01	$1,080.12	17.30%	2.96	8.76	($4.49)	-0.14	114,182	0.03	$1.94	1.06

AND

	Count Freq.	Win/ Loss	EV	Standard Deviation	Optimal Bets	Custom
Count	Count Freq.	Win/ Loss	Std. Error	Standard Deviation	Exact	Bets
<=-1	38.89%	-1.72%	0.03	1.13	1	25
0	26.79%	-0.63%	0.03	1.13	1	25
1	6.39%	-0.22%	0.07	1.129	1	25
2	5.51%	-0.16%	0.07	1.128	1	25
3	4.49%	0.36%	0.08	1.127	4.59	50
4	3.52%	0.48%	0.09	1.126	6.11	125
5	2.73%	0.67%	0.11	1.126	8.49	200
6	2.13%	0.74%	0.12	1.126	9.39	200
7	1.69%	0.83%	0.13	1.127	10.45	300
8	1.39%	0.89%	0.15	1.129	11.15	300
9	1.16%	1.12%	0.16	1.129	14.04	400
10	0.98%	1.48%	0.18	1.131	18.49	500
11	0.83%	2.12%	0.19	1.134	20	500
12	0.71%	2.15%	0.21	1.136	20	500
13	0.59%	2.20%	0.23	1.15	20	500
14	0.48%	2.71%	0.25	1.149	20	500
15	0.39%	3.22%	0.28	1.159	20	500
16	0.32%	2.91%	0.31	1.164	20	500
>=17	1.00%	4.02%	0.17	1.17	20	500
	Average Bet	Results	Results	Results	Std Dev	Std Dev	Risk of Ruin	Perform	Perform	Perform	Perform	Rounds	Std Err	Std Err	Std Err
Bets	Average Bet	%W/L	Win/Rnd	Win/Hour	Round	Hour	Risk of Ruin	DI	SCORE	CE	CE/WR	N0	%W/L	Win/Hour	SCORE
Optimal	$76.20	0.91%	$0.69	$69.14	$165.23	$1,652.29	19.80%	4.18	17.51	($16.17)	-0.23	57,104	0.04	$3.07	1.55
Custom	$76.20	0.91%	$0.69	$69.14	$165.23	$1,652.29	19.80%	4.18	17.51	($16.17)	-0.23	57,104	0.04	$3.07	1.55

**stopgambling** · 08-03-2017, 07:53 PM

how do you get a score that low spread 1 to 20 using the cvcx in the browser gives me a higher score . it is essentially playing it like a 6 deck .

**Freightman** · 08-03-2017, 09:24 PM

Even the dd game crowded, decided to go with my modest profit. Oh shit. Longer road trip than normal. Played a low class dump yesterday simp,y to break up the drive and only looking fir exoense money, only to waste time at what used to be a good game, the $25 shoe game which they still have in different nights was a good game. The $19 shoe game burns dealer hole card when u bust. Screw that bs. Anyways, I'll try a new Lucile tomorrow which us supposed to have a good game though lower limits. Can't wait to get back to sanity land.

**BJGenius007** · 08-03-2017, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

how do you get a score that low spread 1 to 20 using the cvcx in the browser gives me a higher score . it is essentially playing it like a 6 deck .

Because FELT is not suitable for double deck.

**Koz84** · 08-03-2017, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

Because FELT is not suitable for double deck.

What's the reasoning behind this? I'm interested as my last trip to Vegas I used FELT on DD games (I play FELT exclusively in Aus on our 6 and 8 deck games).

**refinery** · 08-04-2017, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Koz84

What's the reasoning behind this? I'm interested as my last trip to Vegas I used FELT on DD games (I play FELT exclusively in Aus on our 6 and 8 deck games).

You're making a mistake listening to the "Genius".

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 08-04-2017, 07:42 AM

"Ironic Names."

**BJGenius007** · 08-04-2017, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Koz84

What's the reasoning behind this? I'm interested as my last trip to Vegas I used FELT on DD games (I play FELT exclusively in Aus on our 6 and 8 deck games).

FELT is a somewhat inaccurate but convenient counting system that is most suitable for shoe game. For DD game, you should use HiOpt 2. But even Zen and HiLo are better than FELT.

**BJGenius007** · 08-04-2017, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by moses

Read more. Read less. Whatever! But "read" the book of Norm.

Norm's book is OK for average Joe, not advanced enough for genius like me.

**refinery** · 08-04-2017, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

FELT is a somewhat inaccurate but convenient counting system that is most suitable for shoe game. For DD game, you should use HiOpt 2. But even Zen and HiLo are better than FELT.

Wrong, wrong, wrong (AGAIN).

Here is the requested game with the 25-500 spread using FELT-F:

	Average Bet	Results	Results	Results	Std Dev	Std Dev	Risk of Ruin	Perform	Perform	Perform	Perform	Rounds	Std Err	Std Err	Std Err
Bets	Average Bet	%W/L	Win/Rnd	Win/Hour	Round	Hour	Risk of Ruin	DI	SCORE	CE	CE/WR	N0	%W/L	Win/Hour	SCORE
Optimal	$87.30	1.10%	$0.96	$96.41	$177.83	$1,778.28	14.20%	5.42	29.39	($2.41)	-0.03	34,022	0.013	$1.15	0.7
Custom	$87.30	1.10%	$0.96	$96.41	$177.83	$1,778.28	14.20%	5.42	29.39	($2.41)	-0.03	34,022	0.013	$1.15	0.7

Here is the same game with Hi-Lo full indices:

	Average Bet	Results	Results	Results	Std Dev	Std Dev	Risk of Ruin	Perform	Perform	Perform	Perform	Rounds	Std Err	Std Err	Std Err
Bets	Average Bet	%W/L	Win/Rnd	Win/Hour	Round	Hour	Risk of Ruin	DI	SCORE	CE	CE/WR	N0	%W/L	Win/Hour	SCORE
Optimal	$81.59	1.10%	$0.90	$90.07	$177.62	$1,776.19	16.10%	5.07	25.72	($8.51)	-0.09	38,884	0.013	$1.08	0.61
Custom	$81.59	1.10%	$0.90	$90.07	$177.62	$1,776.19	16.10%	5.07	25.72	($8.51)	-0.09	38,884	0.013	$1.08	0.61

Where was my mistake the first time around? I accidentally used estimation by full deck instead of half deck.

Apologies to Freightman. He asked for quick so I ran it real fast. I don't play any DD and forgot to change the deck estimation. The results were still pretty instructive though. Very tough game.

**Freightman** · 08-04-2017, 01:01 PM

No worries
Even that game got crowded. Didn't feel like banging my head against the wall, so I called it quits anyways. The change between last visit and this one is really annoying.

I'm now in a location I've never played - supposed to be a great game, though with low limits. Hopefully, I won't be wasting my time, but at least, it breaks up a long drive. Maybe they'll open up a higher line it table for me.