K-O Full 6D Further Indices

**Aristotle** · 07-09-2017, 05:32 AM

The K-O book/CV do not list indices for soft hands or pairs. To those who practise/know this system, could you please tell me indices for those kinds of hands (or direct me to a reliable source)?

A kind request to the respondents not to make comments about the strength of the system, the merits of learning further indices of this system, TKO etc. The information that I am seeking is for the sake of my own knowledge and education.

Thanking you in advance.

**Gramazeka** · 07-09-2017, 05:50 AM

https://www.blackjackinfo.com/commun...4-decks.54934/

**Aristotle** · 07-09-2017, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gramazeka

https://www.blackjackinfo.com/commun...4-decks.54934/

I do not understand how this thread answers my question.

**Gramazeka** · 07-10-2017, 02:57 AM

CV Data
https://qfit.com/orders.htm

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-10-2017, 07:51 AM

As much as I vehemently dislike K.O., here are some references for my K.O. friends.

From my vault:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w132s3a20t...ount.xlsx?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wn2sbmj8ni...ables.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rizoi9rzlv...nting.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d54ji8kbzv...rison.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w132s3a20t...ount.xlsx?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb1lu4nmrf...ting.xlsx?dl=0

**Aristotle** · 07-10-2017, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

As much as I vehemently dislike K.O., here are some references for my K.O. friends.

From my vault:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w132s3a20t...ount.xlsx?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wn2sbmj8ni...ables.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rizoi9rzlv...nting.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d54ji8kbzv...rison.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w132s3a20t...ount.xlsx?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qb1lu4nmrf...ting.xlsx?dl=0

Thanks for your response ZMF, and I appreciate that you refrained from commenting on KO. Although your files contain some valuable information, they do not really answer my question about obtaining further index values for KO. As it stands, KO has 19 indices (including insurance). Would it be possible to get more? I believe that other systems, like Hi-Lo, have 100+ deviations. By the way, there are seemingly multiple duplicates of the true counting tables in your files.

**Aristotle** · 07-10-2017, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Three

50 to so indices will get you almost all the gain that 100 indices will in BJ.

For sure! I only gave the example to highlight the difference in number of indices of each system. Still, you mentioned 50 indices whereas KO only has 19.

**Gramazeka** · 07-10-2017, 12:06 PM

https://qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage69.htm

**BJGenius007** · 07-10-2017, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Aristotle

The K-O book/CV do not list indices for soft hands or pairs. To those who practise/know this system, could you please tell me indices for those kinds of hands (or direct me to a reliable source)?

A kind request to the respondents not to make comments about the strength of the system, the merits of learning further indices of this system, TKO etc. The information that I am seeking is for the sake of my own knowledge and education.

Thanking you in advance.

First, you need to know KO is not accurate on indexes. The idea behind KO is that you only want to play the most important hands right (max bet at TC +4, the pivot point). For other hands, it is just an approximation.

Below table is the RC values on important TC (0 to +5) , assuming IRC=0 and 6 decks,

5 decks remaining TC 0=4 TC 1=9 TC 2=14 TC 3=19 TC 4=24 TC 5=29
4 decks remaining TC 0=8 TC 1=12 TC 2=16 TC 3=20 TC 4=24 TC 5=28
3 decks remaining TC 0=13 TC 1=15 TC 2=18 TC 3=21 TC 4=24 TC 5=27
2 decks remaining TC 0=16 TC 1=18 TC 2=20 TC 3=22 TC 4=24 TC 5=26
1 deck remaining TC 0=20 TC 1=21 TC 2=22 TC 3=23 TC 4=24 TC 5=25

If you change IRC to -20 for the 6 decks, no matter how many decks remaining, TC 4 = RC 4. For any other TC, your action based on RC will be inaccurate. People who want to make accurate playing decision really need to use true count, not just running count.

**Bigdaddy** · 07-10-2017, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

First, you need to know KO is not accurate on indexes. The idea behind KO is that you only want to play the most important hands right (max bet at TC +4, the pivot point). For other hands, it is just an approximation. If you change IRC to -20 for the 6 decks, no matter how many decks remaining, TC 4 = RC 4. For any other TC, your action based on RC will be inaccurate. People who want to make accurate playing decision really need to use true count, not just running count.

Response above is dead on. KO was designed for simplicity and the indexes that are published are based on approximations. There is no such thing as accurate KO indexes other than those that are right at or close to the pivot point (+4), because at that point the RC = the TC. The rest are basically approximations which essentially assume that you're midway through the shoe.

So, sorry to "rain on your parade", but if you try to expand your KO indexes beyond the published suggestions, you're just going to get yourself in trouble.

**Gramazeka** · 07-10-2017, 05:17 PM

Ok, why BRH unbalanced system have many indexes? )) I must call Bret Harris ))

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 07-11-2017, 08:08 AM

Big Daddy: ... +1

**ferenc11** · 07-11-2017, 12:46 PM

Don't get me wrong boys but i had some valuable results with KO...perfect for shoe games..Would it be a long way to learn HI OPT II for 6 and 8 deck shoes? Would it be worth the effort?
Or just stick to KO as long as it brings the money home? ZenMaster keeps offering his knowledge and there is no day when it would not cross my mind picking up the pen...huge dilemma...
To be honest i would like to see an HI OPT II PRO player in action!