Explanation of Moses Column Counting (please)

**Ustonzen** · 09-17-2017, 06:24 PM

Hotdogs on the boardwalk sounds like a euphemism for something inherently unsavory

Tarzan brings up what I am talking about though - if you can't always be betting min due to heat and longevity concerns - doesn't it make sense that you have a definitive chance of making a substantial amount of additional ev due to the ability to make much more informed playing decisions on hands that you have moderate (cover) bets out over the same player that has a min bet out using a count with drastically less playing efficiency?

**Norm** · 09-17-2017, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Knowledge is to understand a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is to know it doesn't belong in a fruit salad.

That's quite clever.

**Tarzan** · 09-18-2017, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ustonzen

Hotdogs on the boardwalk sounds like a euphemism for something inherently unsavory

Tarzan brings up what I am talking about though - if you can't always be betting min due to heat and longevity concerns - doesn't it make sense that you have a definitive chance of making a substantial amount of additional ev due to the ability to make much more informed playing decisions on hands that you have moderate (cover) bets out over the same player that has a min bet out using a count with drastically less playing efficiency?

"...if you can't always be betting min due to heat and longevity concerns - doesn't it make sense..." No, this statement does not make any sense at all!

"...that you have a definitive chance of making a substantial amount of additional ev due to the ability to make much more informed playing decisions..." No, you don't! It is not a "substantial" amount of EV compared to the other two critical factors mentioned, as was pointed out. Look further into this, study enough raw data, read a couple of the right books, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Riding out a neutral count a little better than the guy next to you? Yes, that makes sense. Indices are only as good as the information they provide and there is a gap between the index plays you use compared to something that approaches perfect play, but as DonS. has put it, there is no tower of Babel. You keep this up and I'm going to start thinking you're a troll interrupting my big chance to try and figure out the effectiveness of what Moses is doing!

**Ustonzen** · 09-18-2017, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tarzan

"...if you can't always be betting min due to heat and longevity concerns - doesn't it make sense..." No, this statement does not make any sense at all!t - how does is it not make sense? Lots of people say their camo and cover includes betting more in negative and neutral counts if the count is neutral but you have a good read what the deck composition is dont you have a better chance of winning?

"...that you have a definitive chance of making a substantial amount of additional ev due to the ability to make much more informed playing decisions..." No, you don't! It is not a "substantial" amount of EV compared to the other two critical factors mentioned, as was pointed out. Look further into this, study enough raw data, read a couple of the right books, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Ill take your word for it.

Riding out a neutral count a little better than the guy next to you? Yes, that makes sense. Indices are only as good as the information they provide and there is a gap between the index plays you use compared to something that approaches perfect play, but as DonS. has put it, there is no tower of Babel. You keep this up and I'm going to start thinking you're a troll interrupting my big chance to try and figure out the effectiveness of what Moses is doing!

The last mention of moses' count was on page 3 - that was not my doing

**BoSox** · 09-19-2017, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ustonzen

Originally Posted by Tarzan
"...if you can't always be betting min due to heat and longevity concerns - doesn't it make sense..." No, this statement does not make any sense at all!
- how does is it not make sense? Lots of people say their camo and cover includes betting more in negative and neutral counts if the count is neutral but you have a good read what the deck composition is dont you have a better chance of winning?

Frankly, I wish three would chime in here, he likes to talk about this topic, but is now suddenly silent. Although I know why he is not chiming in, he cannot find a way to keep it under 19 paragraphs.

**SpikeBJ** · 09-19-2017, 10:53 AM

Over/under is 4 1/2 paragraphs. I'm on the under...

**BoSox** · 09-19-2017, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by SpikeBJ

Over/under is 4 1/2 paragraphs. I'm on the under...

SpikeBJ, I hope you are not making that this weeks lock?

**BoSox** · 09-19-2017, 02:00 PM

To paraphrase if you don't have more info on the deck composition than the TC gives you you will make better decisions when it comes to caver betting as camo.[/QUOTE]

Three, are you implying that it is much to difficult to use betting camo with your style of play, because you will more than likely win most of the hands anyway?

**BoSox** · 09-19-2017, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Three

No. What I am saying is if you know more about the deck composition than the TC has you can make better decisions than if you used just the TC as a guide.

Well then your first quote #226 is incorrect.

**BoSox** · 09-19-2017, 03:45 PM

Yes obviously!

**BoSox** · 09-28-2017, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Three

You have to ask yourself, when I sit down to play do I want to worry about career stats or do I want to make the most of the shoe I am playing right now.

When I sit down to play, I don't worry about anything.

Originally Posted by Three

If you are worried about career stats you should still learn everything because all that small EV will add to a tremendous amount over your career.

Three, everyone has different capabilities, goals and desires, and frankly it is very hard to find two people that think exactly alike. With that in mind I do attempt to learn as much information as I can, thanks to people like yourself. Please stop thinking you know anything about me, as I am extremely competitive but I would never look back on career stats, I live in the present.

Originally Posted by Three

Before you decide what really is worth it and what is not you should figure out the answer to all these questions and then make a truly informed choice that can see how all those seemingly opposed interpretation of the stats are all true. The question then becomes do you want to be behind 6 figures at the end of your career or do you want every penny you could have gotten along the way.

Again, you know nothing about me, and I think you get to god damn personal. You may have noticed another detailed response to my post, the other one was from Tarzan. His response was very thorough, and I would say very professional, without getting personal, in the least. You could learn something from him.

**Ustonzen** · 09-28-2017, 12:39 PM

Calm down bosox - its a message board you cant be too personal in the same way you cant be too professional with someone who doesnt know you at all.

Threes creative take on variance, arguably entertaining loquaciousness, and refusal to disclose a proprietary system does not outweigh his years of utility and helpfulness on this board nor make him deserving of the wretched treatment hes received lately - its egregious (and i dont use that word lightly)

EGREGIOUS!