First Backoff

**Stevie Wonder** · 05-10-2017, 09:06 PM

Well, shit. Had my first back off today. I was only in the joint for maybe 40 minutes. Bought in for 400, lost it all, 400 more, then slowly chipped away to climb back to a measly +$300. Worst part is, I was coloring up to leave as it happened. And I was planning to leave after the shoe before, but decided on one last shoe (didn't profit a single chip the last shoe). I think I'd have made it out the door had I not stuck it out for that last one. As I colored, the suits showed up and asked me to step back to talk for a minute, and I asked if I could just leave. He asked for my ID, and I told him I'm just going to leave. He then announced he was so and so and was head of security and they need my ID because they think I'm under 30. Lol right? Anyways, I was polite with him and told him I wasn't going to give him any trouble and I just want to leave. He began walking with me to the door and asked me to cash out my chips. For the 12th time, I said I just want to leave and I'll figure that out later. Once he realized I wasn't heading to the cage (where he said to cash in my orange chip they will need my ID- wasn't going there before he mentioned that and damn sure wasn't going there now). He then followed me to the door where I proceeded to walk down the strip.

I was not asked to sign anything and everything was verbal. He said that if I cash out my chips, I can return to play anything but blackjack. But then stated that if I do not cash the chips, then I am not allowed back to the casino. Without anything written, will returning be considered trespassing? At no point did I ever present an ID, but I did make the mistake of parking in the garage. So I guess I'll find out via USPS whether or not they send me a written notice of trespassing. I have a feeling another casino may have been on to me and tipped them off.

**BJGenius007** · 05-10-2017, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder

Well, shit. Had my first back off today. I was only in the joint for maybe 40 minutes. Bought in for 400, lost it all, 400 more, then slowly chipped away to climb back to a measly +$300. Worst part is, I was coloring up to leave as it happened. And I was planning to leave after the shoe before, but decided on one last shoe (didn't profit a single chip the last shoe). I think I'd have made it out the door had I not stuck it out for that last one. As I colored, the suits showed up and asked me to step back to talk for a minute, and I asked if I could just leave. He asked for my ID, and I told him I'm just going to leave. He then announced he was so and so and was head of security and they need my ID because they think I'm under 30. Lol right? Anyways, I was polite with him and told him I wasn't going to give him any trouble and I just want to leave. He began walking with me to the door and asked me to cash out my chips. For the 12th time, I said I just want to leave and I'll figure that out later. Once he realized I wasn't heading to the cage (where he said to cash in my orange chip they will need my ID- wasn't going there before he mentioned that and damn sure wasn't going there now). He then followed me to the door where I proceeded to walk down the strip.

I was not asked to sign anything and everything was verbal. He said that if I cash out my chips, I can return to play anything but blackjack. But then stated that if I do not cash the chips, then I am not allowed back to the casino. Without anything written, will returning be considered trespassing? At no point did I ever present an ID, but I did make the mistake of parking in the garage. So I guess I'll find out via USPS whether or not they send me a written notice of trespassing. I have a feeling another casino may have been on to me and tipped them off.

My guess is that you are in some database and they know exactly your name and the address.

**Freightman** · 05-10-2017, 09:22 PM

The biggest goof was taking the orange. The smaller goof was the car in the garage, though it sounds like Vegas with a high probability of a rental car. Not a big deal - don't think they will use their influence to find your name from that.

The best thing you did was walk out without cashing out. He wanted that, so they could get your chips inside the cage, and justify not paying you until you priduced ID. If Vegas, wait a couple of days, go in 12 hours from the time they bounced you, and cash out.

You're not legally trespassed.

**Stevie Wonder** · 05-10-2017, 10:28 PM

Well I pushed up my all green stack seconds before I got the tap. By the time I looked back to the table the orange and black were waiting for me. I'll have someone else cash my chips. I'm not in any databases for sure. I bounced around locally today and thinking if they are buddy buddy, maybe one gave a phone call to the other with mild suspicions. My sessions were all short with 1 win and 2 break evens before this place. The area is known to do so. This place has never, ever seen an ID from me and I've never had any "real" heat other than unrated play scrutiny from this joint or elsewhere.

Freightman I usually don't enter the garages but this was a special occasion. I'll PM more info. The guy and his minions actually seemed very taken back that I didn't just offer them up the ID. And actually, when he sternly asked for the ID and I asked them if I could just leave, his main minion stepped back as in a "I'm not getting involved if you try and force him to provide ID" manner.

**stopgambling** · 05-11-2017, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

The biggest goof was taking the orange. The smaller goof was the car in the garage,

the biggest goof is the one that try to get his ID.

**Three** · 05-11-2017, 05:46 AM

Cashing orange or higher in most places requires a Floor person confirming you have played to get it. If you send someone else to cash your chip have them buy chips at a craps table with it and then cash out smaller chips. They most likely won't be able to cash the orange chip at the cage unless they receive orange from a table game. Every casino is different but that is the norm. Never ever accept an orange chip at color up.

**BakaFortuna** · 05-11-2017, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder

Well, shit. Had my first back off today. I was only in the joint for maybe 40 minutes. Bought in for 400, lost it all, 400 more, then slowly chipped away to climb back to a measly +$300. Worst part is, I was coloring up to leave as it happened. And I was planning to leave after the shoe before, but decided on one last shoe (didn't profit a single chip the last shoe). I think I'd have made it out the door had I not stuck it out for that last one. As I colored, the suits showed up and asked me to step back to talk for a minute, and I asked if I could just leave. He asked for my ID, and I told him I'm just going to leave. He then announced he was so and so and was head of security and they need my ID because they think I'm under 30. Lol right? Anyways, I was polite with him and told him I wasn't going to give him any trouble and I just want to leave. He began walking with me to the door and asked me to cash out my chips. For the 12th time, I said I just want to leave and I'll figure that out later. Once he realized I wasn't heading to the cage (where he said to cash in my orange chip they will need my ID- wasn't going there before he mentioned that and damn sure wasn't going there now). He then followed me to the door where I proceeded to walk down the strip.

I was not asked to sign anything and everything was verbal. He said that if I cash out my chips, I can return to play anything but blackjack. But then stated that if I do not cash the chips, then I am not allowed back to the casino. Without anything written, will returning be considered trespassing? At no point did I ever present an ID, but I did make the mistake of parking in the garage. So I guess I'll find out via USPS whether or not they send me a written notice of trespassing. I have a feeling another casino may have been on to me and tipped them off.

Just on a more cautious note, it might be better in the future to wait a while before posting about a backoff and be a bit more vague. If casino executives read the forum, they might have a chance at connecting you with this account and identifying you easier. Just being overly careful.

**Stevie Wonder** · 05-11-2017, 07:40 AM

I have cashed out an orange at this shop before with no ID but we will see. It's just shocking/ frustrating that it came so fast with such little at risk. Hopefully this place is just extra cautious. Usually I play with more cover, but decided with such crappy rules and already higher than average RoR that cover would cut in too much for such small play. I guess that was a mistake. And I considered that baka. But I figured if their security is going this far, they have my picture framed on their wall as well. Not to mention there is nothing on here that gives away any information. A vast majority of counters likely employ my spread, so if they narrow me down from that then I never stood a chance to begin with. I figured posting it here for an evaluation would give me more info, than an increased risks of an overzealous PB.

**BakaFortuna** · 05-11-2017, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder

I have cashed out an orange at this shop before with no ID but we will see. It's just shocking/ frustrating that it came so fast with such little at risk. Hopefully this place is just extra cautious. Usually I play with more cover, but decided with such crappy rules and already higher than average RoR that cover would cut in too much for such small play. I guess that was a mistake. And I considered that baka. But I figured if their security is going this far, they have my picture framed on their wall as well. Not to mention there is nothing on here that gives away any information. A vast majority of counters likely employ my spread, so if they narrow me down from that then I never stood a chance to begin with. I figured posting it here for an evaluation would give me more info, than an increased risks of an overzealous PB.

Fair haha. Chuckling to myself thinking about them framing your picture on the wall.

**Three** · 05-11-2017, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder

I have cashed out an orange at this shop before with no ID but we will see.

They may not require it but what is likely to have happened was the cage was notified by the pit that you were coming with some orange. At such places I have had the cashier great me by name. I was playing rated.

**Freightman** · 05-11-2017, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Stevie Wonder

I have cashed out an orange at this shop before with no ID but we will see. It's just shocking/ frustrating that it came so fast with such little at risk. Hopefully this place is just extra cautious. Usually I play with more cover, but decided with such crappy rules and already higher than average RoR that cover would cut in too much for such small play. I guess that was a mistake. And I considered that baka. But I figured if their security is going this far, they have my picture framed on their wall as well. Not to mention there is nothing on here that gives away any information. A vast majority of counters likely employ my spread, so if they narrow me down from that then I never stood a chance to begin with. I figured posting it here for an evaluation would give me more info, than an increased risks of an overzealous PB.

Ive been backed off at higher stakes and much lower stakes as well. The amount is only an issue as it pertains to the joint itself. Take this as an opportunity to review a few things about both your physical and non physical game, I.e., how is your casino comportment, as an example. Maybe you need some work on that issue - hard to say. Could have also been simply a knee jerk, though it doesn't sound like it.

As said earlier, the best thing you did was your non stop walk to the exit, withought cashing out or showing ID. It seems that this Harrahs was far more polite than other Harrahs beat down venues.

**Freightman** · 05-11-2017, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

They may not require it but what is likely to have happened was the cage was notified by the pit that you were coming with some orange. At such places I have had the cashier great me by name. I was playing rated.

The pit has many times called ahead, or after, wanting to know what I cashed out for. It's a good idea to cash out only what the pit thinks you have.

I don't know how many venues have this - I had just arrived at the cash cage when the pit called, cashier looked up to a monitor (that I couldn't see) and remarked that I was just cashing out now.

**jaflynn34** · 05-11-2017, 08:58 AM

I was trespassed from a Vegas Caesars property back in October and informed I would be arrested if I step foot in a Caesars property again. This was my first time being approached. They knew my name and some information about me but were very polite and allowed me to cash out and leave. They didnt just back me off, they told me immediatly to leave and never come back. This happened while at a 25 min table and I was not betting more than 200, but yes it was probably obv I was an AP player. I have since been back a few times to various properties that they own and I petitioned my trespass with head of security but with no prevail. They did ask me to write a letter asking to be forgiven but no reason was given. In fact they just said, "you know what you did so just apologize and ask for forgiveness if you want your petition to be considered."

Talking with other security personal as a friend, they said I couldnt be serious as this never happens to anyone unless i did something harmful. What happened? Are they that particular for taking a few hundred dollars at a measly 25 table? Do you think if they catch me again, I will go to jail?