Amazing game...this BJ game

**ZeeBabar** · 05-06-2017, 11:35 AM

Between yesterday and today, after 6 hours of $25 min DD games, I was down about a $1000. Then, an hour into my last session, playing heads up, TC+4, my super max bet of $175 out, I get a pair of 8's against a 5, split, get a 3, double for less because I only had $150 in chips in front of me, get a 10 for 21. Then, the other 8 also gets a 3 so I ask if I can go to the ATM in the corner. The pit was kind enough to let me. I return and double the second 8,3 and get a king. I win the bet. From no chips in hand, I now have 40 Green Chips in front of me. In the excitement, I lost the count but know it's still positive.

i place two hands of $125 each. I get an 18 on one hand, a pair of 7's on the other hand against a dealer 4. Split the 7's, get another 7. On the first one I get a 10, second one I get a 2, double and get a 10 for 19, Third 7, I get a 6 and stay. I am thinking I am in trouble, might lose all 4 hands (with one double), had forgotten the count, dealer cut card comes out and then a dealer 8 and then, luckily a 10 and dealer busts.

After 7 hours of play, my win for the two day trip was the result of just two rounds. In effect, playing 7 hours at 100 round an hour or 700 hands, my entire small win can be attributed to just two hands. Never happened like that for me.

**Freightman** · 05-06-2017, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Between yesterday and today, after 6 hours of $25 min DD games, I was down about a $1000. Then, an hour into my last session, playing heads up, TC+4, my super max bet of $175 out, I get a pair of 8's against a 5, split, get a 3, double for less because I only had $150 in chips in front of me, get a 10 for 21. Then, the other 8 also gets a 3 so I ask if I can go to the ATM in the corner. The pit was kind enough to let me. I return and double the second 8,3 and get a king. I win the bet. From no chips in hand, I now have 40 Green Chips in front of me. In the excitement, I lost the count but know it's still positive.

i place two hands of $125 each. I get an 18 on one hand, a pair of 7's on the other hand against a dealer 4. Split the 7's, get another 7. On the first one I get a 10, second one I get a 2, double and get a 10 for 19, Third 7, I get a 6 and stay. I am thinking I am in trouble, might lose all 4 hands (with one double), had forgotten the count, dealer cut card comes out and then a dealer 8 and then, luckily a 10 and dealer busts.

After 7 hours of play, my win for the two day trip was the result of just two rounds. In effect, playing 7 hours at 100 round an hour or 700 hands, my entire small win can be attributed to just two hands. Never happened like that for me.

I went in for 8 k yesterday, coming out with a 2 loss. C'est la vie.

Anyways, a complement and 2 criticisms. The Complement, assuming you were in steam acting mode is the double for less. Normally, any double for less double is cost to EV, including this situation. When making a steamer bet, never go into your pocket (though the double for less bet still needs to be meaningful).

Criticisms
1. Shame in you for losing the count. What would you have done if an index situation came up.
2. Shame on you fir running out of money, and having to go to the machine. If I had been at the table, and I knew and trusted you, I might bankroll you. I did that once for a trusted ploppy, who then let me participate on all f his doubles - very profitable. If I didn't know you, as I didnt know this 1 ploppy with a lousy attitude, I neither bankrolled him, or waited for him to go to the ATM to withdraw money. He cursed me - hell with him. Point is, always have money in your picket to finish what you start. Your approach is like premature ejaculation, or, sorry Moses, like a basketball player, dribbling before he shoots..

One last point. It's a lie margin game. It happens often that a days profit can come gown go a singl hand. I can think of many occurrences, where the one defining play would revolve sround a dingle max bet with splits and doubles. It's the nature if the beast.

**BJPloppy** · 05-06-2017, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Freightman

When making a steamer bet, never go into your pocket

Freightman,

This quote confuses me. I love going into my pocket when in steamer mode. As a matter of fact, after one or more trips to my pocket, I like to borrow money from my wife for an even bigger bet. I think this is very ploppy-like. I am wondering if others agree with your take on this.

**Freightman** · 05-06-2017, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by BJPloppy

Freightman,

This quote confuses me. I love going into my pocket when in steamer mode. As a matter of fact, after one or more trips to my pocket, I like to borrow money from my wife for an even bigger bet. I think this is very ploppy-like. I am wondering if others agree with your take on this.

My apologies. Of course, keep digging into your pocket while in steamer mode. I didnt clarify that I was responding to zees specific commentary - that he ran out of chips on the table, and then doubled fir less by $25. He was down 1k at the time, which is steamer time for Zee.

Example - you're down to your last $350 in front if you with lots in your pocket. You bet $200, get a doubling situation. If you're down just bet the $150. It's okay. It's a cost to EV, obviously, but it dies help longevity.

Now, an extreme example from actual play. I was in for 2 or 2.5 k, with roughly that amount of chips in front of me. Don't recall my exact bet, so I'll work out my recollection. Was playing 2x250, maybe more. Hand 1 is 77, hand 2 is 62, vs dealer 6. Hand 1 turns into a max split, all hands doubled. With a true count still justifying a risk averse double on hand 2, and about $80 short for full double, say something like - as long as I'm blowing my brains out, make the double fir less call. It would have been suspicious to go into my picket to complete the double.

**Freightman** · 05-06-2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by BJPloppy

Freightman,

This quote confuses me. I love going into my pocket when in steamer mode. As a matter of fact, after one or more trips to my pocket, I like to borrow money from my wife for an even bigger bet. I think this is very ploppy-like. I am wondering if others agree with your take on this.

Should have also added
Appears you have a good steamer persona

**DSchles** · 05-06-2017, 01:21 PM

See BJA3, p. 9, THE Hand.

Also, whatever happened to the days of "mark a double," or "mark insurance"? This used to be a common procedure, at least all over the Las Vegas Strip. You asked the dealer, in effect, to lend you the chips for the bet(s) from the rack, and if you won, well, they were instantly paid back, but if you lost, then you went into your pocket for more money, or went to the ATM machine, in your case.

Don

**Freightman** · 05-06-2017, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

See BJA3, p. 9, THE Hand.

Also, whatever happened to the days of "mark a double," or "mark insurance"? This used to be a common procedure, at least all over the Las Vegas Strip. You asked the dealer, in effect, to lend you the chips for the bet(s) from the rack, and if you won, well, they were instantly paid back, but if you lost, then you went into your pocket for more money, or went to the ATM machine, in your case.

Don

Interesting. Never knew that ever existed. I guess the interesting question is, if you lost, and had no money to pay back. Think I'll check page 9 when I get home, Enjoying my java at the neighbourhood bakery cafe.

By the way, something I really enjoy, which Yankees may get to in the near future. Anyone that I know who holidays in Cuba, brings me back cohibas. At this time of day, there is a pleasant cool breeze on my deck. A glass of wine, my iPad filled with music from my era, and a Cuban cigar. Nice prelude to dinner.

**Freightman** · 05-06-2017, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Freighter. As my brotha teammates would say, "shoot the nut." The ball looked like a walnut.

Explains basketball players dribbling before shooting. It's those fur lined jock straps. Ball to ball carpeting.

**ZeeBabar** · 05-06-2017, 01:45 PM

Freightman:

when I placed my first max bet of $175, I had another $325 in chips in front of me, sufficient to double. However, when the pair 8's resulted in a pair of doubles, I had $25 short.

Losing the count came from going to ATM and then having four bets lined up etc. I agree. The excitement of my trip perhaps ending in the black after the second to last round and then the possibility f going into the red do soon after, yes... Not yet a robot but trying...

**Freightman** · 05-06-2017, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Freightman:

when I placed my first max bet of $175, I had another $325 in chips in front of me, sufficient to double. However, when the pair 8's resulted in a pair of doubles, I had $25 short.

Losing the count came from going to ATM and then having four bets lined up etc. I agree. The excitement of my trip perhaps ending in the black after the second to last round and then the possibility f going into the red do soon after, yes... Not yet a robot but trying...

Don't be a robot as such. To many counters are obviously robotic to the tees. . Your goal is to be imaginatively robotic, which is sonething far different. Think about that one fir a while.

Actually, the more I think about it, you are so undisciplined, that imaginative robotery (is that a word) should be a natural for you.

Believe it or not, I have always prided myself in my inconsistent approach to things. Underneath what appears as poor discipline lies cold logic. Examp,e - give me the exact same problem fir 2 different individuals, and I'll propose different solutions to each. Pretty tough to follow if you're trying to figure out what I'm doing - beyond the obvious of course.

**Stevie Wonder** · 05-06-2017, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Don't be a robot as such. To many counters are obviously robotic to the tees. . Your goal is to be imaginatively robotic, which is sonething far different. Think about that one fir a while.

A common analogy in my "real life job" is to be like a duck on the water. Appear calm and smooth from the outside, but paddling like hell underneath.

**Joe Mama** · 05-06-2017, 03:18 PM

One store where I play calls out "double for less" just like they do "checks play" drawing attention.

**Three** · 05-08-2017, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Between yesterday and today, after 6 hours of $25 min DD games, I was down about a $1000. Then, an hour into my last session, playing heads up, TC+4, my super max bet of $175 out, I get a pair of 8's against a 5, split, get a 3, double for less because I only had $150 in chips in front of me, get a 10 for 21. Then, the other 8 also gets a 3 so I ask if I can go to the ATM in the corner.

Why would you even start a shoe underfunded to play through it?

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

In the excitement, I lost the count but know it's still positive.

How long have you been counting to get excited about anything?

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

when I placed my first max bet of $175, I had another $325 in chips in front of me, sufficient to double. However, when the pair 8's resulted in a pair of doubles, I had $25 short.

When you attar a shoe you should have enough money to way more than cover the most you have ever needed for a shoe. This is a rookie mistake that no veteran should ever make. If you don't have the funds to start a shoe, then you don't start the shoe. If that is all you have for your trip then you have busted your trip BR and you head home with the insufficient money in your pocket.