Devastation with the shufflers

[LVBear584]

Now, that's interesting shit. Can you elaborate, or is that a no no in this case.

Just as a furtherance and the immediate preceding comments, the technology is there to cheat, but legislation has negated that ?

I still can't say more than link to a newspaper article that mentions others, but not everyone, who were involved in the project. The players not mentioned in the article still wish to remain anonymous, even after all these years.

Attorney sues casinos for using card counting system

[Norm]

It cannot create a shuffle that alters the odds of the game.

[ZeeBabar]

It cannot create a shuffle that alters the odds of the game.

Is this the machine or the law in Nevada?

An ASM can take a used deck and shuffle it back to the order the decks came in. Folks have seen this done. If they can do that, they can shuffle it back in any order desired.

If a manufacturer wanted to sell such ASM's in states where there is no law preventing it, can even sell to people for private home purposes, can sell to Zindian tribes, why not.

[Norm]

It is illegal in NV to have a device that alters the odds. Just as it is illegal to have loaded dice. Other states have even stricter laws as those laws were created later and other states do not have the dependency on casinos that NV has. It would be idiotic for a manufacturer to create devices that are illegal in NV.

BTW, I only played at a MindPlay table once. Not only was it painfully slow, the PB told me everyone in the casino hated them.

[ZeeBabar]

http://statweb.stanford.edu/~susan/papers/casino.pdf

[Norm]

That study was of an initial design, not a finished product. It concluded with a trivial solution that would provide adequate randomness. The point is that the manufacturer performed due diligence.

[moses]

Uncle! Zee, you've convinced me to never play against a shoe with a machine shuffler.

Now I've got some single deck machine shufflers. Thus some questions. Where is the switch located? Where should I look for the blinking light? I did see a little green man once, but he didn't speak English and there was this funny smell in the casino. Who decides to flip the switch? I've won my fair share of games. Yet I've never seen anyone go near the machine.

Suppose they get the machine all set to screw me. Then I go two hands on the first. Of course I cut the cards. But I close my eyes so that little man can't see me.

[moses]

Norm. Would you please stop rigging Verite to kick my A during practice? It's giving me an inferiority complex.

[Norm]

It's the only fun I have.

[moses]

It's the only fun I have.

Come to the sportsbook. Talk about outlandish stories. I feel like I'm cast in a remake of "One Flew over the Coocoo's Nest."

[Barney112]

Norm is correct. I know because I was involved in the research and field testing in Reno for the lawsuit that exposed the cheating feature of Mindplay, and also helped select the plaintiff who became the public face of the litigation handled by Bob Nersesian.

I will say the whales are gone from Ameristar in the st. Charles area that I know they've all moved to Hollywood. But the casino has engineers and like a fine tuning race car they have Engineers working on their Motors to Peak their performance year round. My question is this could the casinos engineers. ask Shuffle master to program they're shufflers to a certain way of shuffling the cards. An about a year ago when all this started Ameristar stop burning cards and when the table opens the cards are not washed they're simply Counting and put into the shuffle machine as they come out of the package in order . By doing this they have figured out how to kill most players and the high-limit room. Does anybody else know any casino that does not wash there cards before they're put into the shufflers. ? I won't say they're cheating I will say they have figured out how to kill they're blackjack players

Sent from my B1-820 using Tapatalk

[Barney112]

These guys simply do not want to believe it's possible. They have not played at Ameristar, not lately, nor have they talked to the lower level dealers or pit folks. The place used to hop, had a lot of the wealthy playing there. It's dead.

It's beyond dead it was the happening place in town for gambling in there high-limit room. But as you said if you don't see it you won't believe it I've seen it ...bad bad bad

Sent from my B1-820 using Tapatalk

[Three]

I have played in places that people say have rigged shufflers. I beat the shit out of them. The truth is the people are either bad at CC or can't see variance or can't see other reasons for results. I tracked results carefully and determined what conditions contributed to poor results. Then I avoided those conditions and my results improved greatly. These people that see rigged this or whatever will never learn why they actually lose. Usually the places that seem to offer the best games are toughest to beat. They are not cheating. The variance is high on great games. The margin for error is much less forgiving. Combine the 2 and you have trouble. As the last card approaches any error in anything is greatly magnified. The increase in any kind of human error from counting error to memory error to deck estimation error exponentially increases the randomness of results when you are playing with the most variance. I have had places that kicked my ass most of the time so I went there less. Eventually I started winning most of the time and went there more and vise versa. That is variance. When you always get beat there is a reason and you should figure out why because it is very unlikely the casino is cheating. You just have more to learn. Careful observation of what places aren't killing you because of variance will teach you advanced lessons in AP by figuring out why. If you believe you are being cheated and don't try to understand what is actually going on you are destined to continually fail where you could learn to succeed.