Devastation with the shufflers

[Ryemo]

Zee...

When Ameristar suspects someone to be an AP, but they aren't sure, they do what's called an EVALUATION. They don't start pushing secret buttons on the shuffling machine! Lol

I recall once, I was playing in front of a pit boss who I never had issues with in the past, but that night, I was starting to catch some heat from him. I specifically remember him picking up the phone and calling surveillance and saying; "hey, I've got a guy who's increasing his bets a lot more towards the end of the shoe. The guy wearing (blank) and (blank)." Once the pit boss finished his conversation, I looked around the room and realized that no one else in the room fit that description at all, except for me. So I knew I was being watched. That night, I got away because I played a dummy session for a few double deck shuffles, but ended up getting counter-measured from them on my next visit.

The point is this: if you're a suspected AP, then they evaluate you. They don't start programming shuffling machines. Simple!

[Ryemo]

I've had ploppies at the table complain about all of the undealt cards, that is that trusty half shoe. I've ecplained that it is simply a new casino policy of allowing the dealer additional time to interact with the players, thus grooming a more loyal account base. Some of them actually believe that bullshit.

Lol. I've been counter-measured many times with ploppies at the table. A lot of them were completely oblivious when getting half-shoed on 6D game. But it's a lot more noticeable when they only deal out .5 out of 2 decks. I've seen ploppies get so upset over that. The best one is when the pitt boss announces the counter-measures to the entire table and everyone at the table is so confused and can't understand this sudden "policy change" lol.

[ZeeBabar]

Zee...

When Ameristar suspects someone to be an AP, but they aren't sure, they do what's called an EVALUATION. They don't start pushing secret buttons on the shuffling machine! Lol

I recall once, I was playing in front of a pit boss who I never had issues with in the past, but that night, I was starting to catch some heat from him. I specifically remember him picking up the phone and calling surveillance and saying; "hey, I've got a guy who's increasing his bets a lot more towards the end of the shoe. The guy wearing (blank) and (blank)." Once the pit boss finished his conversation, I looked around the room and realized that no one else in the room fit that description at all, except for me. So I knew I was being watched. That night, I got away because I played a dummy session for a few double deck shuffles, but ended up getting counter-measured from them on my next visit.

The point is this: if you're a suspected AP, then they evaluate you. They don't start programming shuffling machines. Simple!

Ryemo, hiring and paying a surveillance guy is far more expensive and technology has becgun to catch up. If you can push a button to get the ASM to shuffle to a different right grammed set, there is no need to be calling anyone to check on you.

In any case, the DD games at Ameristar used to draw a lot of local AP's and ploppies but now, it's mostly an empty HL room. I was there this weekend. They only had 1 DD table open most all day, another 2 on Saturday night.

[LVBear584]

I hate casinos as much as anyone. But manufacturing and placing cheating machines would take a massive criminal conspiracy among people who wouldn't be likely to even know each other, and would have little to personally gain from the results of the conspiracy. Occam's razor?

[Freightman]

I hate casinos as much as anyone. But manufacturing and placing cheating machines would take a massive criminal conspiracy among people who wouldn't be likely to even know each other, and would have little to personally gain from the results of the conspiracy. Occam's razor?

We tend to be paranoid in favour of our own interest, with logic be damned.

I agree - Occam's razor.

[Barney112]

Ryemo, hiring and paying a surveillance guy is far more expensive and technology has becgun to catch up. If you can push a button to get the ASM to shuffle to a different right grammed set, there is no need to be calling anyone to check on you.

In any case, the DD games at Ameristar used to draw a lot of local AP's and ploppies but now, it's mostly an empty HL room. I was there this weekend. They only had 1 DD table open most all day, another 2 on Saturday night.

I was there last night after 10 p.m. had 4 tables open and no players a couple of the dealers said it's been slow in here for a year I told the lady I wonder why. She said the shufflers I said I know. Hopefully you won that car

Sent from my B1-820 using Tapatalk

[ZeeBabar]

I was there last night after 10 p.m. had 4 tables open and no players a couple of the dealers said it's been slow in here for a year I told the lady I wonder why. She said the shufflers I said I know. Hopefully you won that car

Sent from my B1-820 using Tapatalk

These guys simply do not want to believe it's possible. They have not played at Ameristar, not lately, nor have they talked to the lower level dealers or pit folks. The place used to hop, had a lot of the wealthy playing there. It's dead.

[ZeeBabar]

I hate casinos as much as anyone. But manufacturing and placing cheating machines would take a massive criminal conspiracy among people who wouldn't be likely to even know each other, and would have little to personally gain from the results of the conspiracy. Occam's razor?

They are not cheating machines. They are ASM that has capabilities. Kind of like cars being able to go 130 mph when the it's against the law to drive overv75mph. You don't call cars cheating machines because they can be used to defeat laws and regulations, do you?

just like there are individuals who can misuse cars, there are casino operators that can misuse ASM's and the pit or dealers may not even know. I have seen dealers apologetic and surprised at some of this shit and it's not all that random cause they have seen it. 6+ aces out in the first 20 cards, dealers getting 7 card 20's. Etc, etc.

Its naive to think that they don't cheat.

[Banker]

May be before we completely discount either version of the argument, someone with expertise can comment on the legality of it based on the gaming laws in that state. If programing options provided by the manufacture, what is the casino legal obligations? Do they have to choose random. It is possible that that the technology is faster than updates in laws. I am not suggesting it happens but I am asking if a casino did it, are there legal consequences? If so, can someone point to where it states that in the law?

[Norm]

The manufacturer would not be able to obtain a license for such a machine in NV. Before MP21 could be licensed, they had to remove a feature.

[LVBear584]

The manufacturer would not be able to obtain a license for such a machine in NV. Before MP21 could be licensed, they had to remove a feature.

Norm is correct. I know because I was involved in the research and field testing in Reno for the lawsuit that exposed the cheating feature of Mindplay, and also helped select the plaintiff who became the public face of the litigation handled by Bob Nersesian.

[Freightman]

Norm is correct. I know because I was involved in the research and field testing in Reno for the lawsuit that exposed the cheating feature of Mindplay, and also helped select the plaintiff who became the public face of the litigation handled by Bob Nersesian.

Now, that's interesting shit. Can you elaborate, or is that a no no in this case.

Just as a furtherance and the immediate preceding comments, the technology is there to cheat, but legislation has negated that ?

[Banker]

Norm and LV584
Thanks for your input. My understanding (could be wrong) that MindPlay case was considered cheating because it monitored the cards and when it was in favor of player it re-shuffled. It is not the same as the question posted earlier, i.e.. that for a shuffler to be legally acceptable, is there a requirement for a random or even near random shuffle?