Instant Heat when Unrated

[Xothan]

Unfortunately, before I discovered AP, I was a ploppy for years. I collected a fairly massive collection of Player's Cards and have always played rated.

Most recently (in fact just this week), I've tried playing anonymously at a couple of casinos in the Vegas area where the pit doesn't know me by sight, and even at a place I normally play rated where I didn't recognize the floor person so I tried to go anon.

Out of 4 times I've tried to play anonymously so far, the heat was instant from the first hand. The floor person just hovered over my table the entire time, only going away briefly to check on some "check change"s at other tables. (Each time was at a different casino!)

During 2 of those instances, the floor person fanned through the discard pile right in front of me.

Another floor person even made a snarky comment when I got up to leave after about 20 minutes of spreading 1-3 (I toned it down due to the hawkeye).

I feel that my comportment is pretty good, certainly not nervous or anything. I'm making conversation with the dealer and other players, ordering drinks, etc, generally sticking to my normal ploppy routine (remember that I was one for many years!)

One thing that might be a problem is I try to play during slow periods so that the tables aren't so busy. Perhaps that means the floor person doesn't have anything better to do than to keep a hawkeye on anon players? How do we get around this when it's best for us to play at uncrowded tables?

Many (most?) of you seem to play unrated at fairly high stakes (I'm only red and green chipping!). May I have some advice on how to play unrated without attracting instant heat?

(When I'm playing rated, the heat is not instant at least!)

[stopgambling]

Heat is a "hot" topic. tell him you go the f. away. that is if you are a real ploppy but you aint.

[Freightman]

How old are you, how u dress, your true comportment etc. Are all part of the equation - as well as the fact that some if these guys are assholes, who have nothing better to do than double as Hemorrhoids.

Burp, Pass some audible gas and invite them to enjoy the essence while you pick your nose. Go to the John, return and announce that you forgot to wash your hands, while pushing chips into the square, then extending your hand to shake his, giving him your pseudonym. If they are going to stare you down, the least they can do is to shut the fuck up.

In other words, be creative. These dickheads know how to dish, but retreat when being challenged.

Now, you need to adopt a persona that suggests that you are a non threat. Whatever the persona is, know it well. There is no harm in it being something that is actually close to what you do, as long as you are not to specific. Have your reasons for not getting rated ready, and wiling go spring into action. Have credible lies available should, once the critter walks away, that you get the second degree from the dealer as to where you're from, where do you play. etc. If they catch you off guard on something, just tell them your irritable bowel syndrome just kicked in, and you have to shit - right now. The possibilities are endless.

[stopgambling]

One suggestion is hired a ploppy to harass them back , i would . i once heard a ploppy yell at the floor " get the fxxx away, you jinx " . " you make me lose every freaking hands while you go watching" in a real mean way . it must have been degrading . i was laughing inside but that floorperson was not a real jerk , he isn't that bad. There must be many ways to get even. i already befriend some real aggressive ploppies and get them on my side to bite any threats.

[Three]

One suggestion is hired a ploppy to harass them back

You mean the guy starting at 1:30 heckling for the card counter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2qZY5WFOYg

Flipping the EITS the double bird should do the trick. LoL

[Xothan]

These non-serious replies are not very helpful, guys... Freightman has some possibly some interesting things to say but is mixed with so much non-serious stuff I can't separate out the wheat from the chaff.

[Freightman]

These non-serious replies are not very helpful, guys... Freightman has some possibly some interesting things to say but is mixed with so much non-serious stuff I can't separate out the wheat from the chaff.

You need to comprehend that 8 inch woofers coupled with 4 inch tweeters are, in fact, enjoyably compatible. Some if it was indeed, toungue in cheek, yet, depending on persona, good info. If you're a serious individual, which it appears that you are, peruse sentence 1 of paragraph 1 and the last paragraph. Leave the burping and farting for the pros

[Bigdaddy]

A couple things come to mind -

Show up to the table with a drink or a beer. Act a little routy. That tends to reduce the threat level in their mind right away.
Not sure where your basic counting skills are, but you must strive to be ridiculously good at counting. Be able to turn away from the table, or watch TV while the round is dealt and then pick up the count with a short, natural glance.

This should loosen them up a bit.

[Xothan]

Show up to the table with a drink or a beer. Act a little routy. That tends to reduce the threat level in their mind right away.

Hard to do when stepping right up to the tables when I enter the casino, but I guess I can always spend a few minutes playing VP or something first, to get a drink.

Not sure where your basic counting skills are, but you must strive to be ridiculously good at counting. Be able to turn away from the table, or watch TV while the round is dealt and then pick up the count with a short, natural glance.

I'm quite good I think, I can easily carry on conversations, act nonchalant, etc.

The problem I am facing is from the very first hand, when they realize you want to go anon and they park themselves right in front of the table right away. Does this not happen to anyone else? It's happened 4 times in a row for me already.

It's a very peculiar pattern I find when they want to observe you. When I am sitting in 1st base, they are always hanging out beside 3rd base, and when I'm sitting in 3rd base, they are hanging out beside 1st base.

[scroogemcduck]

In my experiences, some places will instantly call surveilance if you buy in over $500 unrated at a blackjack table, especially if you're a young nerdy white guy. A middle aged asian woman could get away with it 100%.

Things that will help:
1. Dress and act like a wigger drug dealer or a trustafarian.
2. Buy in at a different game, then bring your chips to blackjack.
3. Buy in for no more than 2 max bets, and rebuy as necessary.

[ZeeBabar]

Why are you going anon? Like you, I have a lot of players cards, most received when I was incompetent. They must have me in their books as a loser because I get offers, free comped rooms in many places, free table play and more. The few times I attempted to play unrated, I got attention which affected my play.

Now, I play rated, play $10 or $15 min 6D or $25 min. DD. I play less aggressively the first few hands if Pit is watching but then play normally. Max bet at 6D is 2x$90, at DD, it's $150 or $175.

I once got backed off at one M Life property but it did not seem to affect me and I continue to play in their other properties. If winning, I rathole chips at opportune times (dealer change) and keep my winnings low (average $4-500, and under $1k) at any one session.

Here on these forums, folks who have not played rated in years keep repeating the idea that we should not play rated. Maybe things have changed because I have stayed under their tolerance and apparently not reached their limits.

I would advise you to continue to play rated unless you get backed off someplace. Without anyone backing you off, why are you not playing rated?

[Stealth]

I would advise you to continue to play rated unless you get backed off someplace. Without anyone backing you off, why are you not playing rated?

Really bad advice!

Your are OK playing however, until then you are not! You do not get backed off in increments, it is a stop and stop now! And Zee it is coming!

The cumulative loss of EV from losing a store is much greater than the bullshit free stuff you are getting.

[ZeeBabar]

Really bad advice!

Your are OK playing however, until then you are not! You do not get backed off in increments, it is a stop and stop now! And Zee it is coming!

The cumulative loss of EV from losing a store is much greater than the bullshit free stuff you are getting.

Stealth, everyone and especially the newbies, are not like you and most likely they do not play where you do. In a lot of places, when someone sits down in an empty casino at a $25 table and refuses to show ID, get a players card (in some places, you don't even have to get off the table to get a players card, the pit gets you one), they are watched very closely and very obviously.

This affects the play of many of us. Many get less aggressive with their play, don't increase bets optimally, don't double on A7, (or A8), and often don't hit or stand when count calls for it and just resort to BS only.

Playing unrated is like driving a car without a license without a license plate. A non-descript car that the police would not notice. We would drive conservatively, ensure we don't get caught. With a license, we can drive a fancy sports car. We play the cat and mouse game, get good at it. Playing rated, first, the pit does not pay nearly as much attention, second, you don't worry about a low profile, become friendly with the pit.

At best, we win 60% of the time, lose 40% of the time. When we lose, we ensure they note our losses (I check how much they have got me down for, generally get them to add a couple hundreds saying they did not note it, that the dealer on break called out but they did not hear it. I ask for meal comp). When we win, we are careful to ensure they have us for a lesser win. Ratholing helps. I change my green chip winning, while still ahead, to blacks and pocket it. When a new dealer comes on, he seldom is aware of how many I have. If I have 4 black chips in pocket, I take out 2 and add to green chips in front of me when I cash out. At the cage, You ensure that you exchange the amount you cashed out at the table. Come back and cash the rest later.

Its a trade off.