is this illegal in vegas?

[tomf23]

Just remembered this from a few months ago
Was playing in a not great game but ok game at a place I had comped rooms.
I had just started getting back into card counting and basically wanted some practice,wanted to keep the comps and while i new my ev wasn't huge i'm very rusty and figured it's break even at worst wonging out etc.

Anyway one night count gets good, female asian pit boss comes over,slaps the table and yells shuffle which the dealer did.

I left shortly after but played 3-4 times a month or so later (never on her shift) with no problem

Is this legal?

[Banker]

Yes it is legal, as long as no external device was used to make the decision to shuffle.

[scroogemcduck]

IIRC Bob Nercessian said on Gambling With An Edge that he thinks preferential shuffling is technically illegal, because it involves changing the odds of the game, though this has never been enforced, and probably never will be enforced.

The nevada statute defines cheating very broadly:
"

• 1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
  
  
  • (a) The result of a game;
  • (b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
  • (c) The value of a wagering instrument; or
  • (d) The value of a wagering credit."
    
    
    1b accurately describes preferential shuffling.

[DSchles]

See BJA3, item (7), pp. 208-09.

Don

[tomf23]

Ty Don,I read bja2 years ago and am about 100 pages into bja3.

[Tarzan]

I agree with Don, it's essentially cheating on the part of the casino. What's not to agree with here! The casino is manipulating the outcome. Let's say I offer a SD game. I train all my dealers to go no more than 5 rounds in a positive count, but go 6 or 7 rounds in all negative counts. What impact does it have over going 6 rounds consistently? The exact difference could be assessed, and it wouldn't be in the player's favor. This effectively lowers the percentage of the time you'll see a positive count from the norm.

Should you run into this situation, it's time to bail! It's not a fair game. This lowers the frequency of seeing positive counts and impairs not only a counter, but even the basic strategist! The dealer is a real shit for doing this also, as this is something that will definitely jeopardize their tips. How gung ho do you have to be to dip into your own pocket in order to get a better gouge on the players for the sake of the casino? If it's the pit supervisor initiating the shuffle, then avoid playing on their shift.

[tomf23]

Even if it wasn't legal what is your recourse? Definitely not nice. She must be hockey fan as she just told her dealer to puck that guy.

Depends what the recourse would be.if I could get them a fat fine for this nonsense I would.

[Skyler62]

Do you think that you did anything to alert the Pit Boss something was "going on" at that table? Did you start making very large wagers? Did you say anything to anyone? Did you act in a way that was unusual?

[tomf23]

someone else sat down that "shoe" and was likely counting as well. i was going to leave at the end of the shoe as i didn't want to be raising bets with someone.
they did something like go from 10 to 300 in double deck.