What's the minimum SCORE you consider playabe to count?

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 08:11 AM

I'm curious as to people's thresholds for what's a playable game. Maybe at one point those in the trade might have thought anything below 50.0 was just unplayable but meeting those standards in today's games may or may not be realistic. As games get tighter (if that's really the trend) we might lower the standards for what we consider playable.

I would prefer it if people answered as if they had to start counting all over again. Obviously if you have lots of 200+ SCORE AP plays you aren't going to waste too much time on sub-par counting. I'm wondering what kind of threshold everyone might think is a reasonable 'nothing under this' number for the pure blackjack counter.

For general curiosity, not directly for personal advice.

**Three** · 03-12-2017, 08:19 AM

I want higher than any of these so I picked the highest. There are a lot of other factors than SCORE that could have me playing a lower SCORE game though.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 08:48 AM

I'm not really familiar with the upper practical SCORE ranges but I was trying to fit a reasonable amount in without offering 30 options for the poll. Perhaps I should have done multiples of 10 but I was focusing on the lower range as I describe in my OP.

Any comments on typical upper ranges for a linear count?

I would like to know whether you would have answered the same considering the context described in the OP. So if you had to start over with no super-duper-non-tradiational magic count, other AP plays etc., with counting being your only AP.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Probably upper 40's for decent games.You asked about upper but that would depend on your count. Not sure how much lower a simple count would be but it would be generally lower.

And if you had to start over, as described, what SCORE would you tell yourself 'never play a game below this number'?

**ZeeBabar** · 03-12-2017, 10:38 AM

Most of the games I play seem, at optimal betting levels, to fall between 43 (playing one hand) to 60+ (playing two hands), DD games.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Probably 50 but I would be talking c-SCORE. Your poll was for SCORE so I have been trying to answer for SCORE not c-SCORE. For my last post I think it would fall in the range between you top 2 choices.

The confusing part of the term is that these days SCORE refers to both SCORE and c-SCORE. The CV suite is a good example of this.

This post prompt me to re-read BJA3's chapter on SCORE but taking a quick skim (I'm still going to read it!) shows that I probably won't get the answers for what I'm about to ask.

From what I understand c-SCORE is SCORE with the 10k standard removed. I don't calculate either by hand since (for counting at least) the software that gives you the data you would need to calculate it calculates it as well (at least c-SCORE if I'm not mistaken that the CV suite refers to c-SCORE as SCORE). I haven't personally found a written piece describing the precise differences.

I'm wondering, at what points do they fall apart? That is, give different results for the same number. I've never bothered thinking of the SCORE equivalent of a c-SCORE. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 11:06 AM

Also Norm, if you see this, I wouldn't mind re-issuing the poll to include more results on the upper end. Let me know if this is possible.

**jimmybond007** · 03-12-2017, 11:09 AM

I generally try to stay above 50 c-score as a rule. If there is a good heads up situation and can get lots of hands in that threshold may be lower. Just have to evaluate as you go.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by moses

My SCORE absolutely sucks. But I make money. Given the choice of the two? I will take the money.

lol, if you aren't too embarrassed give us an estimate. I would love to have someone else that's relatively (as far as competent counters go) a glutton for punishment. I don't want to make it out like I'm running around playing online live dealer games with 6 figure N0s but for what's available to me, I'll take a N0 that I can easily complete just under a year. Lower is always better obviously but the thread is about what you won't touch.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

SCORE uses standards for BR, RoR, and spread bet with an optimal ramp. C-SCORE calculates for whatever you enter for these categories. SCORE would be a measure of how good the game is compared to other games. c-SCORE is the measure of your approach to any game that is offered.

Thanks. Gotcha. SCORE is more general, for measurements of games, c-SCORE has inputs from a particular approach and is for comparing approaches.

**DSchles** · 03-12-2017, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by NotEnoughHeat

The confusing part of the term is that these days SCORE refers to both SCORE and c-SCORE. The CV suite is a good example of this.

This post prompt me to re-read BJA3's chapter on SCORE but taking a quick skim (I'm still going to read it!) shows that I probably won't get the answers for what I'm about to ask.

From what I understand c-SCORE is SCORE with the 10k standard removed. I don't calculate either by hand since (for counting at least) the software that gives you the data you would need to calculate it calculates it as well (at least c-SCORE if I'm not mistaken that the CV suite refers to c-SCORE as SCORE). I haven't personally found a written piece describing the precise differences.

I'm wondering, at what points do they fall apart? That is, give different results for the same number. I've never bothered thinking of the SCORE equivalent of a c-SCORE. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

SCORE assumes $10,000 bank, four players at a shoe game, and a spread no higher than 1-16. If you have fewer than four players, such that you play more than 100 rounds per hour, c-SCORE will be higher. If you spread wider than 1-16, c-SCORE will be higher.

Why not just sim how you play?

Don

**DSchles** · 03-12-2017, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Don. O brother. Does this mean single deck, straight up, 1 hand at 1 to 2 hands at 3 might not be a fair barometer?

Not sure I understand your question. The criteria for SCORE are spelled out in the book. Anything that deviates from the standards is a c-SCORE. I don't know what you mean by "a fair barometer."

Don

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

SCORE assumes $10,000 bank, four players at a shoe game, and a spread no higher than 1-16. If you double your bank, c-SCORE should be twice as high. If you have fewer than four players, such that you play more than 100 rounds per hour, c-SCORE will be higher. If you spread wider than 1-16, c-SCORE will be higher.

Thanks Don.

Originally Posted by DSchles

Why not just sim how you play?Don

I do. It doesn't really have to do with the topic though. The two things I was wondering in this thread is what is generally considered playable and the difference between SCORE and c-SCORE.