Parameters for short distance travel to play...

**ZeeBabar** · 03-12-2017, 06:42 AM

I was trying to find a way to justify traveling to places where there is just one or two casinos. Suppose there is no casino in your town and the nearest one is 3 hours away. You drive all that way, play an hour, feel some heat and leave. Thus, you are driving 6 hours to play 1-2 hours. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. All total, it's an 8 hours, one day trip with a $50 cost (Gas and snacks). Assuming you are satisfied with $$25 an hour, I suppose one must average a $250 win. That is 0ver $125 per hour. How do you decide on a trip and whether it's worth it?

Are there parameters you stick to before electing to go on a day trip, a 1-2 day trip, a weekend trip? Do you count the time it takes to get to the destination or just the actual costs?

The drive can can be tiring.

**Freightman** · 03-12-2017, 07:57 AM

Zee
Justifying something you want is easy. It's simply a matter of turning wants into needs.
There's a place that I know that has this incredibly juicy game. The $10 games in this joint are always full. The hi limit table opens up, usually late afternoon, on request, provided staff is available. It's incredibly juicy. I can drive or fly.

Do I make this flying trek at airline cost plus hotel plus car rental to potentially not get a table, go through the where are from grilling to potentially leave after an hour because of perceived heat, for $25 an hour. Don't think so.

Firstly, I'm not travelling anywhere for $25 an hour. Secondly, with 1 casino in an area, I'll face the stare down if I have to - I don't really care. You are kinda sorta looking at one thing correctly - that being thinking about EV as some multiple of expense. Seriously though, to look at $250 as a multiple of a $50 expense is ridiculous to the extreme. You're not using your head correctly in respect to your bankroll, optimal ramping information, which you now have available to you.

As a retired guY, I don't think you neeed to consider your travel time as part of an expense, but you do need to consuder your travel expense. You also need to up your ramps in order to generate the much higher EV you need to to achieve a far higher multiple of expense that you are now achieving.

You're sellout g yourself short on too many fronts.

**mofungoo** · 03-12-2017, 08:12 AM

Have some sort of Plan B in case blackjack is unplayable. For me that's poker, and poker is the most frequent choice these days it seems.

**Three** · 03-12-2017, 08:14 AM

This is an excellent question many overlook. Of course playing rated can get you incentives to show up that can help with this but many choose not to play rated. If you use incentives to help you must learn to work whatever system the incentives come from. In a situation with solo casinos sometimes they are played out so a circuit of several casino can make sense in the same day or over a period of days. Of course you get a combined incentives from all the casinos to cover expenses and maybe show a profit if you do that. That solo casino with nothing near it presents a different problem. I either just avoid it or plan to at least spend one night. That way if you feel the heat you can just come back at a different shift. Usually 8 hours later you can figure all 3 shift changes, dealer, Floor, and surveillance, have occurred. If you have managed to get information on when shift changes happen you can use better info for when to come back.

The issue becomes the ratio of expenses to EV. You want expenses to be minimal. If you can share the ride with someone that would pay his half you have already doubled the ratio. If you can bring a car full of ploppies...

If you are getting incentives you should lay out the months incentives on the calendar and figure the highest EV for your travels after factoring in expenses and incentives and the opportunities you will find when you play.

As for a direct answer to your question, I think you can tell it depends on your EV, the expenses, and the incentives. Playing unrated you don't have the later to cover expenses and maybe show +EV just for showing up. Incentives and casino clusters or casinos in close enough proximity to visit several casinos in the same day or the same trip is a wonderful thing.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 03-12-2017, 08:39 AM

As with the other thread it's a good idea to have multiple reasons to visit an area. If there aren't too many stores another way to diversify is to learn how to play new games. Do some general scouting, see what kinds of games are available and what has potential to be beat.

**Three** · 03-12-2017, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by NotEnoughHeat

As with the other thread it's a good idea to have multiple reasons to visit an area. If there aren't too many stores another way to diversify is to learn how to play new games. Do some general scouting, see what kinds of games are available and what has potential to be beat.

Agreed. Scouting is time well spent and you should have many types of AP plays in your arsenal.

**ZeeBabar** · 03-12-2017, 10:33 AM

To be more specific, there are a couple of casinos about 3 hours from my home but in different directions. I can only make a day trip for family reasons. Like, leave 8:00 a.m., get there about 11:00 a.m., play 2 hours and head back. One is in Metropolos, IL, another in Evansville, IN. Games are 6 deck and $10 min. As an example, went there once, won $800, next time I won just $50, a third trip, I lost $400. So, 3 trips, counting drive time, it's about 25 hours to win $400 with $150 in expenses or $250.

If you divide by total time or $250/25, it's $10 per hour. If you divide by hours played, it's $250/5 or about $50 per hour.

It just does not seem worth it.

I have also taken on overnight trip to Tunica, drive time is 4 hours. I usually actually play 8-10 hours at $25 min, DD tables. In this case, it's 8 hours driving to play 8 hours with higher expenses (usually about $125). What would be the win amount that would make this a better deal?

**Ryemo** · 03-12-2017, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

To be more specific, there are a couple of casinos about 3 hours from my home but in different directions. I can only make a day trip for family reasons. Like, leave 8:00 a.m., get there about 11:00 a.m., play 2 hours and head back. One is in Metropolos, IL, another in Evansville, IN. Games are 6 deck and $10 min. As an example, went there once, won $800, next time I won just $50, a third trip, I lost $400. So, 3 trips, counting drive time, it's about 25 hours to win $400 with $150 in expenses or $250.

If you divide by total time or $250/25, it's $10 per hour. If you divide by hours played, it's $250/5 or about $50 per hour.

It just does not seem worth it.

I have also taken on overnight trip to Tunica, drive time is 4 hours. I usually actually play 8-10 hours at $25 min, DD tables. In this case, it's 8 hours driving to play 8 hours with higher expenses (usually about $125). What would be the win amount that would make this a better deal?

Zee, are you really calculating your "hourly earnings" based on the results of 3 (very short) trips and 5 hrs of actual play time?!? You've been on these forums for years... have you learned nothing?! I truly hope you aren't actually justifying your travels (or regretting them) based on the net wins/losses of your actual results, as opposed to your EV for the trip.

You want to know whether or not the trip is worth your time?? Calculate your hourly EV. How do you do that, you may ask? Use the software you claim to have purchased a while back. And to be honest, whether or not something is worth your time is a personal decision. Some people may think $25/hr is worth their time. Some people may feel like $150 is NOT worth their time. That question can only be answered by you. Everyone's situation is different, and so are their standards. But if it were me, the answer would be no. I'm wouldn't invest that much time for very little in return.

**Sharky** · 03-12-2017, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

...If you divide by total time or $250/25, it's $10 per hour....

In this case, it's 8 hours driving to play 8 hours with higher expenses (usually about $125). What would be the win amount that would make this a better deal?

is this a 'trick' question???...considering the extra driving time and a 'better' deal, you'd have to earn >$10.00/hr....so
(8 hr play + 8hr drive) x 10.01 = $160.16 + $125 exp = $285.16 to be a 'better' deal

**ZeeBabar** · 03-12-2017, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ryemo

Zee, are you really calculating your "hourly earnings" based on the results of 3 (very short) trips and 5 hrs of actual play time?!? You've been on these forums for years... have you learned nothing?! I truly hope you aren't actually justifying your travels (or regretting them) based on the net wins/losses of your actual results, as opposed to your EV for the trip.

You want to know whether or not the trip is worth your time?? Calculate your hourly EV. How do you do that, you may ask? Use the software you claim to have purchased a while back. And to be honest, whether or not something is worth your time is a personal decision. Some people may think $25/hr is worth their time. Some people may feel like $150 is NOT worth their time. That question can only be answered by you. Everyone's situation is different, and so are their standards. But if it were me, the answer would be no. I'm wouldn't invest that much time for very little in return.

Ryemo, it's one of those silly stream of consciousness post I made following one and two days trips driving 6-8 hours getting to a casino. Driving back after not so successful short trips, one gets depressed, sleepy and wondering why he is doing this.

**Bubbles** · 03-12-2017, 04:41 PM

Calculate your total EV for the trip. Now subtract expenses. Divide the rest by how many hours you're devoting to the trip. Does it seem worth it? Only you can answer that.

There's a couple places I go where my only objective is to cover gas. I'm going into town for groceries anyway. Might as well pop in and get some of my expenses back.

When I make a trip to AP, I'd probably want to net at least 100$ a day personally.

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**tomf23** · 03-12-2017, 08:40 PM

my answer applies more for poker
there are some casinos 1.5 hrs from me that are the closest to me.generally speaking none have a lot of games running most nights and they either don't have a hotel or i can't get comped from poker.
so if i know they only have 1 game i want to play i won't bother most of the time bc i don't feel like driving 3 hour round trip for a shitty game. if they have 3-4 running i would go.depending on where i go there might also be another poker room a short drive away so if they both have 2-3 games running i'd want to play it's worth the trip.
i won't bother going if it's already late at night and i know i won't play more then 4-5 hours before the game breaks.
now obviously much like blackjack i could win or lose thousands in these few hours but overall driving 3 hours round trip, paying gas and tolls etc isn't really worth it in the long run.

the vast majority of my poker play is on trips lasting anywhere from 3 days to a few weeks but i do occasionally just go play for the day.generally on a friday or saturday when i can't go away for as long as i'd like but know i'll get in 10-14 hours in good games on that trip.

**Three** · 03-14-2017, 10:01 AM

Some of my biggest hits are long trips where I didn't find much worth playing so I didn't play much per day. I had a 5 day trip where I averaged 2 hours per day but I made more than 5 day trips where I averaged 8 hours per day. Certainty takes a huge hit when you play poor conditions. I only played conditions I felt would have a high degree of certainty. Sometimes I get my ass kicked but my results are very well behaved if I focus on quality play rather quantity of play. If I show up I may not play a hand but I find things to do that are valuable like scout or attack other AP opportunities I usually don't worry about. A few times I found opportunities scouting that had a much higher EV than counting cards has. I was fully prepared with the strategy to step right in and take full advantage of the opportunities I found.