HiLo to Halves

[Cardguy]

I'm considering switching from HiLo to Halves and I'd like some advice from any experts among you. Do you double the tag values and indices or not? Are there any important differences with the indices compared to HiLo? How long should I expect it to take to get fast enough and accurate enough to use it in the casino? Is it worth making the change? I play shoe games exclusively and play about 150 hours per year. Thanks!

[Freightman]

I'm considering switching from HiLo to Halves and I'd like some advice from any experts among you. Do you double the tag values and indices or not? Are there any important differences with the indices compared to HiLo? How long should I expect it to take to get fast enough and accurate enough to use it in the casino? Is it worth making the change? I play shoe games exclusively and play about 150 hours per year. Thanks!

1. Do you have the desire for it. If so, start off with flat betting and keeping halves count.
2. Players both double values. and use fractions. Doubling values so gives you marginally more accuracy on indices. I use fractions - it's a shitload faster, and no dealer can keep up to me in a speed contest.
3. Beauty of hi lo to halves is that indices (using fractions) are virtually identical to halves, the most notable exception being insurance indices.
4. Wongs Professional Blackjack is an excellent reference for this project. Most relavent tables (whole book is great) would be the hi lo tables starting around page 250, and the halves tables starting around 275.
5. If you double the fractions,then you have to divide by 2 to match the hi lo indices.

Hope this helps.

[DSchles]

"If you double the fractions, then you have to divide by 2 to match the hi lo indices."

Not necessarily true. As with RPC, just reckon the TC by dividing by half decks remaining, instead of full decks, and leave the RC alone. The result will be indices that, for the most part, match Hi-Lo.

Don

[Freightman]

"If you double the fractions, then you have to divide by 2 to match the hi lo indices."

Not necessarily true. As with RPC, just reckon the TC by dividing by half decks remaining, instead of full decks, and leave the RC alone. The result will be indices that, for the most part, match Hi-Lo.

Don

Good point. Question is what is faster. I would think my way, though I'm happy to stand corrected, is more accurate, since the masses are not necessarily good or fast enough to divide by half decks. You're excluded since you're likely an anomaly

[All Clear]

I'm considering switching from HiLo to Halves and I'd like some advice from any experts among you. Do you double the tag values and indices or not? Are there any important differences with the indices compared to HiLo? How long should I expect it to take to get fast enough and accurate enough to use it in the casino? Is it worth making the change? I play shoe games exclusively and play about 150 hours per year. Thanks!

Actually, it is I that play shoe games exclusively, and play around 150 hours per year..... :-)

Until around four years ago, I used Hi-Lo (35 index numbers) exclusively. At that time, I switched to Halves. So that I could keep the same index numbers (in most cases), I used the "half" amount, via saying "K" in my head to mean "and a half"- If I was at +6, and the next four cards were 2, 7, 5, A, I would think "6K, 7, 8K, 7K". But it really didn't take very long to switch. I changed my insurance index from 3 to 3.5, but don't recall changing any others- though I recall that one (or two?) other index numbers, of the 35 I use, could have used a change of 1 also. Is it worth it? For me, definitely. It really wasn't hard for me to do at all. For you, maybe- I guess if counting by half values isn't easy, it may be more difficult to do.

Far harder was what I did a couple of years ago, changing to using a second (balanced) count, and side-counting aces, for a blackjack variant in which doing so is worth it (simulation proven). That is far tougher- keeping one count in numbers, one (a level three) count in letters....

[Freightman]

A suggestion. I've played halves for about a year in casino play. Appreciated valued input from Freighter. Now I kept two sets of 1/2 point numbers in my head. It literally gave me headaches. I'd have to lay down and put a warm cloth on my head. It's like doing 5000 jump ropes without shoes. Promise your feet are go to hurt.

Freighter might say different. But I think 3 half points on one side and just 1 half point count on the other was causing an imbalance.

So I moved the 1/2 point from the 5 to the 7. Bam, headaches went away. Then, I went back after 10k hands and I was able to do it without headaches.

One possible cause if your cranial indigestion would be not cancelling out the fractions by count the.5 as an individual number.
Eg, 95=1,79=0,57=2 etc.

The following YouTube link is a serious study of being able to do 2 things at once.

https://youtu.be/QCytjdfhDAc

[Cardguy]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'm going to give it a try. I just started practicing on CVBJ today and I feel like a complete ploppy - super slow and many mistakes. Still I think I'll be able to get it - just not sure how long it will take. Moses' suggestion to tag both the 5 and 7 as "1" would certainly make it easier but I think I'd be missing out on a lot of the gain I'm looking for. One more question. It looks like the deviations are almost identical to HiLo with one major exception. According to Wong, Professional Blackjack p. 277, there is no surrender index for 17 v. A in a 4D H17 game. In HiLo, I surrender 17 v A at any TC<2 (p. 261). Is this a typo or do you really stand with 17 v A regardless of the Halves count? Thanks again.

[Sharky]

I'm considering switching from HiLo to Halves and ...I play shoe games exclusively and play about 150 hours per year. Thanks!

that game and those hours....likely not worth it, imo

assuming:
~ stakes are fixed (not increasing with 'better mousetrap')
~ hour studying/training = hour less playing

looking at ~20 xtra hrs of ev/yr...of course, everyone's learning curve is different....if it takes you 40 hrs to be at same proficiency as current....you cost yourself 2 yrs until get ROI

I suggest learning more indices as they can be transferred at later date

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Sharky makes some good points.

However ... Study is its own reward.

Halves is a difficult Level Three count.

I urge you to study Hi-Opt II.

Much easier and stronger too.

[Freightman]

Sharky makes some good points.

However ... Study is its own reward.

Halves is a difficult Level Three count.

I urge you to study Hi-Opt II.

Much easier and stronger too.

Oh brother!

[Cardguy]

The reason I chose Halves is because I already know about 50 HiLo indices. Two years for ROI is OK as I hope to play for 20 more years. What about the surrender index for 17 v A in H17?

[Freightman]

Sharky makes some good points.

However ... Study is its own reward.

Halves is a difficult Level Three count.

I urge you to study Hi-Opt II.

Much easier and stronger too.

You need to be very accurate on the ASC, or you're fucked. BC's are equivalent, after hi opt 2 ASC..
PE's are stronger with Hi Opt 2 with Ace Side Count. Add an ASC ((already reckoned for betting) to halves, and PE's are much closer. IC is stronger with hi opt - but, can you keep count with the fastest dealers accurately sudecounting aces with remaining half or quarter deck conversion. Can you keep up at 300 hph plus, or do you cap at 150-200 Hph. You need speed, greasy speed.

I'll trade side counts for 300 plus hph. Doubt you could keep up with me, and stay accurate. There goes any edge that you perceive.

https://youtu.be/N0GdQyIm7DU

[Freightman]

The reason I chose Halves is because I already know about 50 HiLo indices. Two years for ROI is OK as I hope to play for 20 more years. What about the surrender index for 17 v A in H17?

Prof Blackjack, pages 91,277