Opinions please

[Freightman]

I've always, regardless of wins or losses, made sure I stayed under Government reporting requirements. I walked into a store where im known, but have never showed ID. They could easily find out more about me if they so desired - maybe they have - don't know.

This has never happened before. Bought in for 500 with a heads up table. By midway thru the second shoe, I've determined that I might push that 9k (in my jurisdiction) envelope. Everything, like you wouldn't believe, is going right. I don't want to report if I don't have to, so, if I do, then the question becomes - how far past the threshold can I blast to make reporting worthwhile. I don't want to quit this monster.

Right or wrong, I decided as follows - since the end total result is still unknown. I made sure if exactly where I was at money wise. I scaled back my bets to less than half of what they should have been, with the further decision of super watch on the cut card, prepared to lose intentionally the last hand or 2, if necessary. I stayed under.

Winning, is of course, important. Maximizing EV to the extreme, is not , at least for me.
Thoughts?

Had I not made the decision, result would have taken me over threshold by around 2k - was 500 under.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Cannot be an issue unless you craft a self-defeating problem.
Simply do NOT cash out and there shall be no problem for you.
I rarely cash out any large amount of chips.

[Freightman]

Cannot be an issue unless you craft a self-defeating problem.
Simply do NOT cash out and there shall be no problem for you.
I rarely cash out any large amount of chips.

The issue was not the casino per se - I really want to stay out if Government gun sights.

[bigplayer]

The issue was not the casino per se - I really want to stay out if Government gun sights.

You are admitting to a felony financial crime right here Freightman. You cannot structure your cash transactions with casino for the purposes of avoiding government oversight. You can structure for the purpose of avoiding casino oversight as long as you do not structure the rest of the time and also do not cash more than $10K during that gaming day. That is why many players go out of their way to NOT avoid to CTR at other times. (like at Casinos when being rated under their real name or at the bank).

It is unwise to discuss stuff like this in a public forum without carefully guarding what you say to avoid giving the wrong impression. My good AP friend had a big issue in Missouri with regards to cashing $9K over several days. The casino pulled all $500 chips off the floor and he was the only person with any of them. As he cashed them out they were able to track them straight to him no matter how many $2000 cashouts he did. Everytime the cage wound up with $8K to $9K in purple chips redeemed in a day they filed a Suspicious Activity Report with FINCEN. He was eventually charged with structuring and is still on probation 2 years later and has to call a probation officer to ask permission to go on a trip. In the end he got too aggressive in trying to maintain the right level of chip stockpile and never bothered to CTR at other times. He made the governments case for it and had to make a plea.

[NotEnoughHeat]

You are admitting to a felony financial crime right here Freightman.

Sorry to be a nit picker, but a crime requires actus reus 'the guilty act'. I agree though, it might not be the most prudent thing to potentially give evidence for the mens rea of a crime.

[Freightman]

You are admitting to a felony financial crime right here Freightman. You cannot structure your cash transactions with casino for the purposes of avoiding government oversight. You can structure for the purpose of avoiding casino oversight as long as you do not structure the rest of the time and also do not cash more than $10K during that gaming day. That is why many players go out of their way to NOT avoid to CTR at other times. (like at Casinos when being rated under their real name or at the bank).

It is unwise to discuss stuff like this in a public forum without carefully guarding what you say to avoid giving the wrong impression. My good AP friend had a big issue in Missouri with regards to cashing $9K over several days. The casino pulled all $500 chips off the floor and he was the only person with any of them. As he cashed them out they were able to track them straight to him no matter how many $2000 cashouts he did. Everytime the cage wound up with $8K to $9K in purple chips redeemed in a day they filed a Suspicious Activity Report with FINCEN. He was eventually charged with structuring and is still on probation 2 years later and has to call a probation officer to ask permission to go on a trip. In the end he got too aggressive in trying to maintain the right level of chip stockpile and never bothered to CTR at other times. He made the governments case for it and had to make a plea.

Appreciate the comment and thought behind it. Other than this extraordinary situation, have never tried to limit chips won - never played to the point where I had to. CAD tax laws differ from US tax law, so there is no issue on that point. I would never knowingly break the law. I've limited currency declarations to crossborder transportation from US to Canada, where an accumulation of wins made the declarations necessary. I've ctr'd those transactions to my USD dollar account at my local CDN bank branch, specifying source of funds, and with proof of original source by means of original USD withdrawal.

My comment was poorly worded and did not properly convey my intent. I do like to stay private in transactions, especially where casinos are involved to limit their knowledge of me - though I'm not really sure about how much they know or don't know, which is a discussion for another day.

In theory, at least in Canada, information collected by casinos for the purposes of government reporting is protected by privacy legislation. Information collected for this purpose is retained in casino files for a specified period of time. Is it really protected? - don't know.

[Three]

Even the King Kong U.S. Government is not going to go after somebody for just thinking about something.

But if he is from Canada were the mind police dwell. They police what you think.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... never bothered to CTR at other times."

Yes indeed;
and that is why I have posted that I purposely make
large cash transactions at my banking institution; and
playing under my real name, [rare in recent years] has
created no headaches for me.

[RS]

You are admitting to a felony financial crime right here Freightman. You cannot structure your cash transactions with casino for the purposes of avoiding government oversight. You can structure for the purpose of avoiding casino oversight as long as you do not structure the rest of the time and also do not cash more than $10K during that gaming day. That is why many players go out of their way to NOT avoid to CTR at other times. (like at Casinos when being rated under their real name or at the bank).

It is unwise to discuss stuff like this in a public forum without carefully guarding what you say to avoid giving the wrong impression. My good AP friend had a big issue in Missouri with regards to cashing $9K over several days. The casino pulled all $500 chips off the floor and he was the only person with any of them. As he cashed them out they were able to track them straight to him no matter how many $2000 cashouts he did. Everytime the cage wound up with $8K to $9K in purple chips redeemed in a day they filed a Suspicious Activity Report with FINCEN. He was eventually charged with structuring and is still on probation 2 years later and has to call a probation officer to ask permission to go on a trip. In the end he got too aggressive in trying to maintain the right level of chip stockpile and never bothered to CTR at other times. He made the governments case for it and had to make a plea.

If I'm understanding this correctly -- your friend got nailed for "structuring" a $9k cash-out? AFAIK, doesn't structuring mean you're cashing out an excess of $10k to avoid a CTR? Since no CTR is required at $9k cash-out, shouldn't you legally be OK to cash out $1k or $2k at a time until you cash out all of your $9k in chips? In other words: It's impossible to try to avoid a CTR if you don't even have enough chips to generate a CTR. What am I missing?

[Freightman]

Cannot be an issue unless you craft a self-defeating problem.
Simply do NOT cash out and there shall be no problem for you.
I rarely cash out any large amount of chips.

I've seen guys before try go bypass this issue as you've mentioned. The pit knows, no cashout = no ID = no play. Not an option.

[Meistro123]

yeah I don't think that is how it works. Casinos by law are required to track and report 10k cash outs (cumulative in 24 hour period), not wins or losses. They will of course track your wins and losses for their own internal purposes.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Meistro is (essentially) correct.

Canada uses a minimum figure of CA$9,000.

Your cumulative win is a REAL concern.

The government reporting is IMAGINARY.

[Freightman]

Meistro is (essentially) correct.

Canada uses a minimum figure of CA$9,000.

Your cumulative win is a REAL concern.

The government reporting is IMAGINARY.

Unfortunately, both Maestro and you are wrong, at least for this jurisdiction, or casino personnel have it wrong. They have screwed up the which 24 hour period applies. The 9or 10k buy in is obvious. Now, for a shout, different stores seem to be doung it differently. When they know you're over 9 or 10 k in chips, they want ID.

Now, to clarify the 9 or 10k - Fin Cen doesn't care about 9k. That's a new gaming requirement which requires ID for a given period of time - I have to recheck as to what it is. The 10k is Fin Cen, subject to entire,y different rules. I know a counter who had a 10 k win in that city, did not cash out. He was asked ID on his next visit. When he refused, he was not allowed to play, the 10k win being cited.