Dealer Question From A Newbie!

[Kyzz]

Dependent what you mean by "know you're counting". Having been a dealer and worked with many dealers, it became apparent many dealers are, for lack of better words, basically retarded. The dealers who suspect you of counting likely suspect ploppies of counting, too. In the break room I've heard dealers say there's a card counter on their table (it was always the same dealers, the ones who think they're hot sh*t and should be running the place)....and I knew that likely wasn't true because I'd deal to those players too, and they'd go play craps and make all the worst bets on the table for hours then go play roulette and slots.

It seemed like most of the time the dealers wouldn't rat out the supposed card counter, except on occasion where the guy was being an a**hole by smoking a cigar and basically blowing the smoke directly at the dealer.


I think most don't realize you're counting, unless you're playing long sessions and being rather obvious. And those that suspect you of counting, most likely don't care enough to rat you out.

I see, thanks. I try to befriend and be polite to every dealer. I've been playing 3-4 hour sessions with a 1x10-2x50 spread. Is this too long?

[Kyzz]

As with most things blackjack, it depends.

Most dealers do not have a clue. They are still telling ploppies the wrong basic strategy plays. I have had dealers that know and don't care, never had one to rat me out that I am aware of. Being cordial (tips?) to a knowledgeable dealer may be considered.

Pit bosses however deserve more attention. Dealers job is to deal and pay correctly, pits job is more about game protection. Relationships matter.

There are ways to disguise a spread (did not say eliminate!) without giving up EV. Short sessions (<1 Hour) are always MOST IMPORTANT.

How do you maximize EV playing under an hour? There aren't many casinos available to me, and with my low spread, I just don't see it being profitable. (17.08/hr).
Currently, I've been coming to this same casino once a week, playing 3-4 hours. Should I just cut that in half?

Thanks

[cc12b]

+1 to what Bigdaddy said.

They usually don't outright say it, but they'll get pretty darn close sometimes.

I have couples "close encounter" with dealers. A player at table commented that I am mostly lucky with big bets and dealer replied " he is good and know what he is doing". I left when shoe was over. Another time when I double down A9 against 6 before the cut card, dealer said "now cameras will watch you closely". Another time a dealer said "you play like Mr. X" (a known counter among players who count)

[Bubbles]

One time I was playing and another counter sat next to me. I suggested he goto the other table. He decided to stay. Later on the counter and I both took insurance. The dual rate floor walked over and said, "If those two are taking insurance, the rest of you should be too."

Sometimes dealers tell me I play A7 like a professional.

One time I doubled A9 v 6 and someone at the table said, "I've never seen anyone double 20 before." The dealer said, "Oh, she know's what she's doing."

My dealer friends have given me critiques on my clothing choices.

I didn't know the index for A8 v 6. I doubled it 3x incorrectly one day and the third time the dealer was like, "you really need to learn how to play that one better." I said, "I played it correct, it's BS." He's like, "I know it is, that's not what I mean."

[Three]

Nice post Fenix. I suppose everyone gets something different out of your post. I see it saying most dealers know what you are doing and don't care as long as you are polite about your play and don't stiff them. They make most of their earnings from players. They may not be happy about a stiff playing at their table especially if they keep their own tips. I believe that most casino employees hate seeing everyone lose all the time. It is their job to assist the casinos to take peoples money. Those with a conscience, believe it or not most of them have one, like to see some players that are able to win as long as it doesn't harm them in any way. It is your job to make sure they feel that way about you. A dealer won't like a stiff taking up a seat that could be filled by a tipper. A Floor person doesn't like a person they know is hiding chips or playing in a way that forces them to act against the player or risk being called out for not acting. None of them like a disruption that makes their job more difficult. On the flip side there are types of players they like having around because they make their job easier and/or more pleasant.The tone of the knowing comments from dealers often show how they feel about you. Is it a comment that makes you feel uncomfortable as if said by an adversary or welcomed and helpful as from a friend.

[hitthat16]

The dealers that have found me out usually just make small comments like "looks like you know what you're doing".

One funny old man dealer said "don't worry I won't tell anyone".

[Three]

The dealer comments are usually nonthreatening. The Floor comments are usually the same. Like you never have any problem making some money. Or, you usually win. Or, I see you are betting big so you must know something. You shouldn't react too quickly in cause they are testing you to see if you will leave thereby confirming their suspicions. But you shouldn't stay too long because they are usually reminders they know what you are doing and tolerating you. Make sure you stay well within all the casinos tolerances if they are tolerating you. I always assume they know what I am doing because any AP would know quickly. Never underestimate your adversary. It will lead to unpleasant circumstances.

[Kyzz]

The dealer comments are usually nonthreatening. The Floor comments are usually the same. Like you never have any problem making some money. Or, you usually win. Or, I see you are betting big so you must know something. You shouldn't react too quickly in cause they are testing you to see if you will leave thereby confirming their suspicions. But you shouldn't stay too long because they are usually reminders they know what you are doing and tolerating you. Make sure you stay well within all the casinos tolerances if they are tolerating you. I always assume they know what I am doing because any AP would know quickly. Never underestimate your adversary. It will lead to unpleasant circumstances.

I see, thank you. I've visited this casino quite a bit of times, and I feel like they're okay with me playing for 3-4hours. I'll try not to get greedy and push it.

[Kyzz]

The dealers that have found me out usually just make small comments like "looks like you know what you're doing".

One funny old man dealer said "don't worry I won't tell anyone".

How would you respond to these? Do you play dumb?

[Kyzz]

One time I was playing and another counter sat next to me. I suggested he goto the other table. He decided to stay. Later on the counter and I both took insurance. The dual rate floor walked over and said, "If those two are taking insurance, the rest of you should be too."

Sometimes dealers tell me I play A7 like a professional.

One time I doubled A9 v 6 and someone at the table said, "I've never seen anyone double 20 before." The dealer said, "Oh, she know's what she's doing."

My dealer friends have given me critiques on my clothing choices.

I didn't know the index for A8 v 6. I doubled it 3x incorrectly one day and the third time the dealer was like, "you really need to learn how to play that one better." I said, "I played it correct, it's BS." He's like, "I know it is, that's not what I mean."

Haha, I'm too scared to split 10's or double soft 20's.

[Allbizness]

The other day, I had this terribly amusing dealer who kept screwing over this senior citizen at first base. He'd signal hit, and the dealer would ignore him and give me a card. And the old guy was so docile, the dealer didn't bother to acknowledge his mistakes. Then I had a large bet out against an ace. The dealer ignored my insurance bet, and when it was my turn, I told him I wanted to double my 10. So he takes my insurance bet and moves it to its proper place, and I win. And this was not lost on the older gentleman, who couldn't help but be annoyed with his luck and dealer's moronic behavior. So it's not like dealer's randomly figure you out you're counting. Just look for dumb ones.

[Stealth]

How do you maximize EV playing under an hour? There aren't many casinos available to me, and with my low spread, I just don't see it being profitable. (17.08/hr).
Currently, I've been coming to this same casino once a week, playing 3-4 hours. Should I just cut that in half?

Thanks

Again, it depends.

You can back count and only play at positive counts, you can wong out and only play positive counts. You need to design a protocol to fit the casino and the game. Those protocols may involve using multiple techniques. Run CVCX with each to see the differences in EV and Variance. You should focus on playing positive counts more than hours. Each protocol adds different issues, less EV, more EV higher variance, more surveillance, less surveillance. Reducing the negative counts you play reduces the time exposure to surveillance.

Learn ways to obscure your betting ramp without giving up EV to reduce risk to longevity.

Becoming a headstone for multiple hours and moving your bet with the count is a formula for disaster. It is not a question of if, but when. The "when" will be longer if the stakes are small and shorter if they are large.

[fjrider]

Talking about counting seems to be a delaer/pit hobby sometimes. I've been counting and had them straight out accuse a pure ploppy next to me. Someone doing everything almost exactly wrong. They just see some big bets get put down and do a knee jerk counter comment. Dealers give bad advice far more than they give good advice. I had a guy get all into trying to educate a dealer who had said that he knew basic strategy. They actually spent so much time arguing(and the dealer was wrong on every point) that I had to say, "Hey, can we just play Blackjack instead of "educate the dealer". The player was more interested in showing the dealer how smart he was than in playing. Annoying, and stupid, i.e, ANNOYING.


But Fenix, if they are all openly letting you know they know and letting you keep playing, it fuels my imagination.