Best Rules: 2 Q's From Pre-Kindergarten

[Clint]

I like to read these threads-and I'm not pretending to be humble-when I say, you guys are post-graduate while I haven't hit kindergarten. (My current goal, I'm working on getting Hi Opt II down pat.) I've been visiting CO and have been going to Blackhawk/Central City. Most of their decks are 6 and sometimes 8 (I think). Periodically the decks are electronically lowered into an area below the tables and shuffled. At one casino, I'm fairly sure that they didn't even wait to reach the cut card before a reshuffle. My Q: Without getting too abstract, would someone be willing to list the priority rules, a kind of minimal degree of advantage, if the casino is even to be considered by an AP. For example, I know that 6:5 on BJ is a scam. Some casinos at blackhawk had the soft 17 rule which as I understand it, is a significant edge for the house. Less decks the better, obviously, all other things being equal. Maybe my question is too broad. An answer would be appreciated. Thanks.

The other related Q: (I write this with hesitation cuz when I last read this Q, the writer who posted it took a lot of flak). Here goes: How does one find the current best casinos. I have to confess, when I read some of the answers to the person who posted this Q in the past, I thought "My god, here we have a forum where there's a chance to be generous with each other - unlike the drunken self-serving, mutual scam environment of the casinos - and no one wanted to answer the guy! But I suppose I understand: Competition. Maybe someone can throw me some crumbs and I'll do whatever work I have to, to figure it out on my own. Thank you in advance.

[lij45o6]

I like to read these threads-and I'm not pretending to be humble-when I say, you guys are post-graduate while I haven't hit kindergarten. (My current goal, I'm working on getting Hi Opt II down pat.) I've been visiting CO and have been going to Blackhawk/Central City. Most of their decks are 6 and sometimes 8 (I think). Periodically the decks are electronically lowered into an area below the tables and shuffled. At one casino, I'm fairly sure that they didn't even wait to reach the cut card before a reshuffle. My Q: Without getting too abstract, would someone be willing to list the priority rules, a kind of minimal degree of advantage, if the casino is even to be considered by an AP. For example, I know that 6:5 on BJ is a scam. Some casinos at blackhawk had the soft 17 rule which as I understand it, is a significant edge for the house. Less decks the better, obviously, all other things being equal. Maybe my question is too broad. An answer would be appreciated. Thanks.

The other related Q: (I write this with hesitation cuz when I last read this Q, the writer who posted it took a lot of flak). Here goes: How does one find the current best casinos. I have to confess, when I read some of the answers to the person who posted this Q in the past, I thought "My god, here we have a forum where there's a chance to be generous with each other - unlike the drunken self-serving, mutual scam environment of the casinos - and no one wanted to answer the guy! But I suppose I understand: Competition. Maybe someone can throw me some crumbs and I'll do whatever work I have to, to figure it out on my own. Thank you in advance.

I'll let the veterans answer Q 1.

For Q 2:

http://bj21.com/ads/cbjn1.shtml

You can get a single up-to-date copy, or have the press charge you per updated issue per month. (I think it is cheaper to get the subscription.)

EDIT: The reason(s) AP's do not share great houses is due to the fact that A) Other AP's will rape the casino into oblivion B) Casino "goons" (no, they are not bad people!) lurk the site and will pick out players, their mannerisms, and what they will be doing.

If you want to find good games, you may have to warm up to a veteran player and win their approval. Although, that part may be more difficult than just getting CBJN!

[ZeeBabar]

I like to read these threads-and I'm not pretending to be humble-when I say, you guys are post-graduate while I haven't hit kindergarten. (My current goal, I'm working on getting Hi Opt II down pat.) I've been visiting CO and have been going to Blackhawk/Central City. Most of their decks are 6 and sometimes 8 (I think). Periodically the decks are electronically lowered into an area below the tables and shuffled. At one casino, I'm fairly sure that they didn't even wait to reach the cut card before a reshuffle. My Q: Without getting too abstract, would someone be willing to list the priority rules, a kind of minimal degree of advantage, if the casino is even to be considered by an AP. For example, I know that 6:5 on BJ is a scam. Some casinos at blackhawk had the soft 17 rule which as I understand it, is a significant edge for the house. Less decks the better, obviously, all other things being equal. Maybe my question is too broad. An answer would be appreciated. Thanks.

The other related Q: (I write this with hesitation cuz when I last read this Q, the writer who posted it took a lot of flak). Here goes: How does one find the current best casinos. I have to confess, when I read some of the answers to the person who posted this Q in the past, I thought "My god, here we have a forum where there's a chance to be generous with each other - unlike the drunken self-serving, mutual scam environment of the casinos - and no one wanted to answer the guy! But I suppose I understand: Competition. Maybe someone can throw me some crumbs and I'll do whatever work I have to, to figure it out on my own. Thank you in advance.

The H17 rule is quite common these days and while bad compared to S17, it would not deter most card counters. There is a chart that you can find. You might also use this..http://www.blackjackgala.com/blackja...ge-calculator/

[NotEnoughHeat]

Some casinos at blackhawk had the soft 17 rule which as I understand it, is a significant edge for the house.

As Zee mentioned. S17 is preferred to H17 for both counters and basic strategy players. While S17 results in more pat hands for the house it results in less harder to beat hands.

would someone be willing to list the priority rules, a kind of minimal degree of advantage, if the casino is even to be considered by an AP.

You'll get different answers on the minimum for the game to be playable. Using the metric of SCORE, some players might not touch anything below 50, other will think that's too restrictive and set their lower bar around 40. Personally, I don't go lower than 35.

There isn't just a checklist of rules that make a game good enough since what comes into play is the type of spread you can get away with. You can achieve a higher SCORE with a comparatively worse rule set. I would just make sure there aren't rules which are instant vetoes such as 6:5, 22 push, etc. then focus on good pen, low heat, and fast dealing speed in that order. DAS, DOA, INS and surrender can be pretty big factors. Just sim the game, look at the SCORE using a realistic spread and pen and decide for yourself where you want to draw the bottom line. I like looking at N0.

[Clint]

To clarify, I'm (maybe inaccurately?) using the term S17 to mean, the dealer has to hit on a soft 17 which, based on my albeit limited understanding, gives the house an increased edge. That's not true?

[Clint]

dogman, thank you for the tip.

[hitthat16]

Clint, S17 typically stands for "stand on soft 17" and H17 stands for "hit soft 17". The H17 rule adds an additional .2% to the house edge.

[Clint]

As Zee mentioned. S17 is preferred to H17 for both counters and basic strategy players. While S17 results in more pat hands for the house it results in less harder to beat hands.
Using the metric of SCORE, some players might not touch anything below 50, other will think that's too restrictive and set their lower bar around 40. Personally, I don't go lower than 35.
There isn't just a checklist of rules that make a game good enough since what comes into play is the type of spread you can get away with. You can achieve a higher SCORE with a comparatively worse rule set. I would just make sure there aren't rules which are instant vetoes such as 6:5, 22 push, etc. then focus on good pen, low heat, and fast dealing speed in that order. DAS, DOA, INS and surrender can be pretty big factors. Just sim the game, look at the SCORE using a realistic spread and pen and decide for yourself where you want to draw the bottom line. I like looking at N0.

NotEnoughHeat, thank you for the reply. Your point, there's no checklist is well taken. I'm on the same page as you re doubling down on anything, especially any split-but it's good to hear it from someone else. Focusing on penetration - thanks much for that one. SCORE is one parameter I haven't got into - seems complex. Is "22 push" what I think it is? (Never heard that before): If the player and dealer get 22, then no one wins the bet (?)). I would think, that benefits the AP in case he busts. I have no idea what "No" is and couldn't find it researching - but I'm sure I will. Thanks again.

[Frank Galvin]

NotEnoughHeat, thank you for the reply. Your point, there's no checklist is well taken. I'm on the same page as you re doubling down on anything, especially any split-but it's good to hear it from someone else. Focusing on penetration - thanks much for that one. SCORE is one parameter I haven't got into - seems complex. Is "22 push" what I think it is? (Never heard that before): If the player and dealer get 22, then no one wins the bet (?)). I would think, that benefits the AP in case he busts. I have no idea what "No" is and couldn't find it researching - but I'm sure I will. Thanks again.

I am certain that others will correct me if I am wrong, but from what I have heard, Push 22 means that if the dealer busts with a 22, then the player and the house push (not clear on whether a dealer's 22 would push a player's natural/21/blackjack).

If the player gets a 22, they have already busted before the dealer took any cards, and the dealer's resulting hand is irrelevant as the player's bet was already scooped up by the dealer and inserted into his/her chip tray.

[NotEnoughHeat]

Push 22 means that if the dealer busts with a 22, then the player and the house push (not clear on whether a dealer's 22 would push a player's natural/21/blackjack).

That is correct. Push 22 means that a dealer 22 pushes all hands. It's generally the drawback in BJ variants but I've heard of normal BJ with very favorable rules, otherwise, that were balanced out with P22.

SCORE is one parameter I haven't got into - seems complex.

It is a little tricky. It's easy to use the wrong SD for the calculation. However, what it boils down to is the amount of risk you take on for the EV. Every game with $50 EV is not equal. $50 EV with 0 SD (guaranteed $50) is worth much more than $50 EV with a $1000SD. Sure you could increase EV by max betting as soon as you have a sliver of an advantage but the amount of risk you take may not be worth while since you are decreasing your certainty of profit. N0 is directly related to SCORE in that if you know one you know the other. Search these forums or look it up in Modern Blackjack (free online). Many metrics you won't be able to find easy googling. It's N-Zero btw. Not N-O. 3-2-1 N0.