So in practice as well as some low-stakes trial runs in a casino, I have found that it really is not that often that a shoe goes positive. When backcounting, does it typically take a while to nail down a shoe with a higher TC to jump in on? Walking around and scouting tables for too long seems to be not a great idea.
Do some of you recommend just hopping in at the start of a new shoe and leaving only if the count goes way negative?
Insights on choosing tables?
That would be called the White Rabbit style... Its a very good method to use. I think backcounting is suitable for a store with lots of tables to watch. If it is a joint with a small pit, its harder to pull off. Start at the shuffle and take carefully time bathroom breaks or phone calls or whatever if the count goes south.... come back as the shoe is ending.
Well you could wong out of negative counts, but the problem is that usually the other tables you would join already have players so they are much less desirable. Also too much table hopping may attract heat. Probably your best bet is to mostly just play all, but wong every once in a while. You can always wong out of the casino as well and it is good practice to keep your sessions short anyway, especially if you have a good variety of stores you can cycle through. But do not be afraid to play through a couple decks of -3 tc it is not the end of the world.
Your hourly rate is going to be three times higher at a heads up table than at a crowded table, because you will play 200 rounds an hour instead of 70.
Unless your BR really hinders your ability to do so, I've found back counting to almost be a speed bump/liability. Playing in a negative TC doesn't mean you will lose every hand either. So while its beneficial to avoid them, dredging through them playing heads up will give you a higher hourly.
*Note: These numbers are just for example and not to be taken literally.
For shits and giggles, compare playing HU play all at 200 hph and winning 50% of hands. You've won 100 hands in an hour riding the ups and downs. But if you are using a table hopping approach your hph will plummet if a solo player. So now you've gotten in only 50 rounds in an hour, but have won 52% of the hands. Thats 26 wins. Despite the higher win rate and a higher ratio of blackjacks per hands played, speed is the ultimate factor in the long run game that is card counting.
Again though, this is bank roll dependent. If on a limited BR, then some element of wonging/backcounting will be necessary as there is a much higher RoR and standard deviation with play all approach.
There is value in picking up more negative indices, these will reduce your long term losses at the negative counts. I think it is good advice to not abuse wonging. Its a great tool but you cant be wonging out every shoe. The occasional bathroom break when a shoe just goes bad. Sometimes if i return and the cut card still has not come out. Rather than sit there and just wait for the shuffle. Just play the last few hands betting min or something just to not be so robotic in your game. It wont cost much and you probably avoided numerous negative rounds on your "break." Don't even attempt to do any wonging out on a DD game. Not saying you cant pull it off in certain situations but you will pretty much be playing all on those.
This is where the good game selection really comes in. If you find a good game you have much more freedom to just play all and even spread less to achieve the same results as a crappy game....
Coming down from professional players to average ones, simply start into a shoe, play through 2 decks, take a phone call when TC gets to Minus 2 and watch the table while talking. If TC improves, sit down. If TC remains negative 2 or worse, "save my place, where are the restrooms?", head there. Winging out is less trouble.Originally Posted by Tthree
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