Counting in 2017

[BoSox]

Moses, thank you and I extend the offer to you as well if you happen to pass my way on the east coast. I could just picture this you are watching me play one shoe and the TC is rising along with my bets and with 5 decks in the discard tray, I put out a pumpkin in each of two spots. My 2nd hand I get a blackjack with the dealer showing a ten up my first hand I have a hard 14 TC is at +5 dealer checks hole card no bj pays my bj and then looks at me for my decision on my hard 14 and the word only comes out half way surrrrr when I feel a strong tap on my shoulder I turn and you whisper to me Bo there is still 29 sevens left I am stunned and after a few seconds say to the dealer hold on a second after a brief pause I notice in front of me two green chips, and I put them out and say Double for less and the dealer turns the card and voila a hard 21 we bust out laughing, win the hand and finish the rest of the shoe which turned out uneventful. We head for the best restaurant the casino has and while we are enjoying our food a man approaches our table and says to us no more blackjack. I turn to you and say thanks for the tip, and we bust out laughing anyway.

[bjarg]

Moses, it must of took you four beers in your car to regroup from those two max bet $30 dollar losses.

Haha.
Too funny.

[mofungoo]

Everything is a trade-off. The small amount is not worth the risk. Hence, I can afford to lose a hand, but losing a dealer is too costly since decent pen is rare these days.

This is of critical importance with 1D or any game that is really sweaty. It kills me to tuck a pair of 10s when the count is +8, but if you make that split and the casino makes you leave....

[BoSox]

Moses, I hope I did not upset you with my poor humor in post #21.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Either Norm or T3 are misinforming. Norm says BC is highly important for a shoe game.
T3 continues to push a high PE count that he doesn't use for a game he doesn't play."

Tthree "teaches" here in an open environment.

His level of intellectual capacity is very high

and he may assume that the reader understands

Z-Scores and terms like skew and kurtosis when

they do not. He is a charitable and sharing guy,

who (partially) understands that only a tiny

subset of his readers can fathom what he is saying.

The important part of BC that needs to be fully

understood is that the lower your bet spread is,

the more PE is important. To see this clearly,

all you need to do is to use this Hegelian

methodology. Extrapolate to the logical

extremes of a bet spread of 2-1 and a

bet spread of 100-1

At 2-1 your game is almost ALL P.E.

At 100-1 the game is almost ALL bet-sizing O.K.

As you move along that zerosum continuum

(between the extremes), the significant

difference between B.C. and P.E. changes.

The bigger the spread the more valuable is

accurate betting. With a small spread P.E.

rules. Nobody has ever collected the data

and presented the RATIO between P.E. and

B.C. That would be a sliding scale that would

guide Card Counters in knowing the BEST FIT

between the count that they use and their spread.


The other thing to note regarding Tthree (T3)
is that peeps like us know that all good counts
have a B.C. between 0.97 and 0.99 so it's
meaning virtually nothing. Ergo, P.E. is the
only area where we can focus our research
if we wish to boost our winnings.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

If you think in Black & White terms then you will remain confused.

My example below speaks to the RELATIVE importance of P. E.

compared to T. C. for a particular bed spread. I could expand

upon this and formulate an algorithm that includes all of the

table conditions - so that a rational answer can actually be had

regarding this silly non-controversy. The more aggressive your

bet spread is, the more accurate bet-sizing must be; while the

more conservative your bet-spread is, the greater the relative

importance of P.E.

[Three]

Many have pointed out that T3 is a Spanish 21 player and gave up the shoe game long ago due to the extreme variables. Personally, I wouldn't touch a shoe. But I can read, and more importantly, between the lines.

None of which have any personal knowledge and are purely speculating.

Either Norm or T3 are misinforming. Norm says BC is highly important for a shoe game. T3 continues to push a high PE count that he doesn't use for a game he doesn't play.

I say you don't have to pick one or the other. You can have both if you choose to. What part of that is confusing. Again someone speaking in total ignorance of what I play. I choose to play the best offerings when I enter a casino. Sometimes its counting BJ, sometimes counting other table games and sometimes other plays at table games or even machine play. When BJ is the best offering, which is usually the worst and the sweatiest option, it has excellent rules with excellent pen and will be hawked very closely. I choose my count with that in mind. My count requires the least amount of spreading and the smallest top bet to make the game worth playing (The lower spread makes PE slightly more important. There is no reason you can't choose a count that has both high PE and BC. Both are important. The game you play and the difference between top bet and min bet will define the differences in importance. But to me it is a moot point if you don't need to compromise between the 2. Why would you choose to compromise when you don't have to? You can haver the best of both worlds.) and differs enough in the way information is both gathered and used that I don't look like other counters who usually get very quickly backed off. It works very well for both being tolerated and making money consistently.

[Three]

The more aggressive your

bet spread is, the more accurate bet-sizing must be; while the

more conservative your bet-spread is, the greater the relative

importance of P.E.

I see someone gets it. The thing is there are a family of counts that have both high BC and PE without any compromise (ace neutral with an ace side count of some form or another).

[Freightman]

I see someone gets it. The thing is there are a family of counts that have both high BC and PE without any compromise (ace neutral with an ace side count of some form or another).

Or a strong ace reckoned count with an ASC for play purposes.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

I see someone gets it.

Shhhhh ! Around these parts, that's a secret. L.O.L.

Hopefully, their numbers are legion.

[seriousplayer]

Extrapolate to the logical

extremes of a bet spread of 2-1 and a

bet spread of 100-1

At 2-1 your game is almost ALL P.E.

At 100-1 the game is almost ALL bet-sizing O.K.

Lets just be honest with ourselves. How can you beat a shoe game with 2-1 bet spread straight counting not doing back counting and wong in and wong out? Suppose the PE gives you an even game in shoe game flat betting employing a 2-1 bet spread the game is not going to be worthwhile anyways.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Holy variance, BatGirl !

Wouldn't you just know it -- that this complete

misunderstanding would be immediately posted.


Sheesh ! Try to use spreads of 6 to 1 and 20 to one.

[Three]

How can you beat a shoe game with 2-1 bet spread straight counting not doing back counting and wong in and wong out?

Did anyone say you could. Man I don't know how some of you function. The purpose of the absurd 2-1 and 100-1 spreads was to illustrate a point. Try getting peoples' points rather than just thinking about what snippets you can take out of context and argue with.